D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Monk Belt...

[Vurt]

Factor in that with the full plate your movement drops to 20' (for humans, for example). Add in that you have huge armor check penalties.

With the belt/bracer combo you have your full movement, no armor check penalties, and can wield a two handed weapon for x1.5 strength bonus, if applicable.

Also, the belt/bracer combo is active 24 hours a day. With full plate you won't be sleeping in your armor, and any nighttime encounter will mean you are down to something close to a 10 AC.

Errr, and is this not a reasonable trade-off for a difference of +8 to AC?

If it's still an issue, drop the shield, replace it with boots of striding and springing for 5,500 gp; you've got your movement back up, use of a two-handed weapon, cash in hand (16,000 gp), and your AC is STILL better (AC 24 vs 22), at the cost of some armour check penalties to a variety of cross-class skills, and an unsettled night's sleep. Doesn't seem too badly unbalanced to me...

-- Vurt

[Edit: grammar again! Grrr...]

 

[Bauglir]

Also, don't forget the mystic theurge.

 

[youspoonybard]

Usually Midlevel characters have more Wis than that, IME...

And don't think about clerics. Think about the Druid

Wildshaped, so what, +3~5 natural armor? +3~5 dex? Don't have my books and don't wanna look it up, but that should be relatively easy to get in an animal. Then Bracers +5, Wis "+5", can be raised with a better perapit relatively cheaply, and you can use "item that fits on an animal of dex" for another cheap +1~2 AC boost...Then there's always barkskin for encounters...

All that, and you don't need Heavy Armor Proficiency, AND don't break the Druid Metal Armor spiritual oaths?

Yeah. It's a steal. Way better than the old +5 Wild Dragonhide Fullplate...at high levels, anyway.

 

[Vurt]

Usually Midlevel characters have more Wis than that, IME...

Not in any of my campaigns. Human cleric/druid usually starts out with Wis 16 or so. With 2-3 points in Wisdom via leveling, and a +2 stat booster, you're looking at a health Wis of 21.

And don't think about clerics. Think about the Druid

Wildshaped, so what, +3~5 natural armor? +3~5 dex? Don't have my books and don't wanna look it up, but that should be relatively easy to get in an animal. Then Bracers +5, Wis "+5", can be raised with a better perapit relatively cheaply, and you can use "item that fits on an animal of dex" for another cheap +1~2 AC boost...Then there's always barkskin for encounters...

It's a belt, not a collar. Try finding a bear's waist to put a belt around. Unless you've got a Wilding clasp (FR, 3.0), that belt will get absorbed by the wildshape and becomes nonfunctional. As a DM, I might let you get away with an ape, but that's probably about it.

All that, and you don't need Heavy Armor Proficiency, AND don't break the Druid Metal Armor spiritual oaths?

Yeah. It's a steal. Way better than the old +5 Wild Dragonhide Fullplate...at high levels, anyway.

Sure, it's a steal for a druid, or anyone else who has a good wisdom but doesn't wear armour, for that matter. My point isn't that it's not a good item for the cost, it is. My point is that it doesn't make an unbalanced item at the cost. Running around with AC 22-25 isn't bad when the tanks in the party are getting AC 30-35 for the same amount of money.

-- Vurt

 

[youspoonybard]

Wis is fair then, but all magical items save weapons, armors and shields DO resize still. I don't see why a bear can't wear a belt; it still has a waist.

 

[Vurt]

Try googling for bear pics (I said "bear", not bare! ) or check out some of the pics at the North American Bear Center.

Bears have hips, but nothing I could really define as a waist. Put a belt around it's midsection and it'd slide right off within 5 minutes. (Try putting a belt around yours or a friend's dog and watch what happens when they're not actively trying to rid themselves of the thing.)

Wild shape refers to polymorph, which in turn refers to alter self. The relevant portion of altar self from the SRD reads:

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

I think you have to consider worn magic items on a case-by-case basis... What would happen to a cloak, for instance? Would it stay on the bear's back, or would it slide off as the bear walked, tangling up with the front legs? It would probably get pretty chewed up by the claws, and quickly. An amulet on a chain would work, that's just the equivalent of a collar, really. Gloves? Not with those claws. Boots? Shredded as well. Backpack? It'd slide off similarly to the cloak, or end up awkwardly hanging off of the bear's neck. etc.

A vest on a monkey seems reasonable, but where would you pin the scarab of protection on a raven?

Of course, all of this hinges on the exact definition of the word 'capable' to which your DM subscribes. But consider, if I'm physically capable of wearing a pair of magic boots on my feet and also on my hands, and polymorph into a horse, does that mean I can get the benefit of both pairs of boots? Or is this simply abuse?

In my opinion, the magic item needs to be worn as it was intended to have its intended effect. That's all.

-- Vurt

 

[youspoonybard]

True, and in your game, it's your judgement to choose what to allow/what melds.

I quote this a lot, but here goes:

"In 3.5, when a character uses polymorph or any similar effect to change form, his equipment either remains worn or held (if possible) or melds and becomes nonfunctional. Thus, wild shaping druids should be able to "hold on to" many more items than normal.

As a DM, I'd adjudicate this as loosely as possible--if I can even conceive of the possibility that the new form could wear the item in a manner similar to the normal form, I'd let it stick around.
Andy Collins
Senior Designer
Wizards of the Coast Roleplaying R&D"

I agree with this statement (and his recommended house rule about giving sorcerors UMD as a class skill). Personally, if a Druid in my game wanted to wear a belt as a bear, I'd let him. It's not like he's trying to wear gloves as a bird, or something.

The main point, though, that I feel be can both agree on, is that this is a grey area, left for DM's to adjucate themselves.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Well, you quoted the appropriate passages yourself. It's clearly Wis bonus +1.

This is the important part: "If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus."

So, look up how to figure out the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th level monk. Whoever wears this belt has that same capability. Couldn't be more clear.

(I gave this item to my gold dragon character (epic campaign). With it, as well as Bracers of Armor and other items, he's got something like a 55 AC. Balors couldn't hit him, so they used their Telekinesis ability to Disarm his magic items. Doh!)

You also bolded the item's downside: "This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus."

That means that wearing armor or a shield makes the AC bonus go away (and gives armor check failure chance for the unarmed damage improvement).

-z

Powergamer tip: grab a Headband of Perfect Excellance to go with that new belt. It gives +6 to Str, Dex, and Wis.

 

[Vurt]

To be fair, I'd probably allow the party druid to wildshape into a bear with the thing. After all, it's a game and it's meant to be fun.

But at the same time I'd be watching very carefully to see what the effects were. If the druid starts moving to take over the party tank role, I'm sure the belt would slip off at an inopportune time here or there, or find itself cut by an intelligent enemy who's rather suspicious to find a bear all dolled up for the circus! If nothing else, the roleplaying opportunities would be priceless!


Wiz: Hey look, the druid's belt slipped off again, what's that, the third time this hour?!?

Tank: (grins) Maybe Dru needs to put on some weight.

Dru: ROAR!

Doc: Tank, why don't you go slip that back on for her.

Tank: I'm not going near that bear a...

Dru: ROOOOOAAARRR!!!

Tank: Besides, which one's the druid and which one's her companion?

Dru: (rears up on her hind legs) ROOOOAAAARRRR!!!

Tank: Does that mean?...

Dru: (still up on two legs, thumps chest with flailing foreleg) ROAR!

Tank: OK, OK, I'm coming already...

Dru: (demurely wiggles rear end as Tank slips the belt back on, keeping his nose well averted)

Dru's companion bear: (protectively) GRRRRR...

Tank: GULP!


A mere 10 minutes later, coated in sweat, blood, and hobgoblin gore, the belt slips off again...

-- Vurt

 

[Celtavian]

re

Wow...it really could work that way. That definitely needs some clarification.

I am pretty sure they intended it to be +1 as well. I will only allow it to give a +1 AC bonus until I hear otherwise.

That wording is truly ambiguous and in fact favorable to those wanting to obtain a Wisdom bonus to AC.