D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Bull's Strength

[robaustin]

Was reading in Dragon that Bull's strength in 3.5 is now going to be 1 level per minute of effect instead of hour. I wonder if this is
the same for other spells that affect ability scores like Cat's
Grace, Owl's Wisdom, etc... ANyone know for sure? And what do you
think of this?

I'm not sure I like it....I always liked casting the spell and
having it 'on' all day....

--*Rob

 

[Staffan]

Almost certainly yes, and there are four or five other threads on whether that's good or not.

 

[DreamChaser]

I'm not sure I like it....I always liked casting the spell and
having it 'on' all day....

--*Rob

Those words right there are the major arguments "for" the reduction in duration, as you'll see when you read the threads.

DC

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: 3.5 Bull's Strength

They're also major arguments in the "against" category too--although they're obviously not arguments one could expect the "for" people to give the time of day.

The argument, however, would go like this:

D&D is already very heavily weighted towards the offense. Any side that begins a battle with their short term buffs active usually wins. Now, assuming that the spells still have any value in 3.5, their effect will most dramatically be felt in ambush and assault situations. Essentially the change to short duration spells means that the balance is shifting even further towards whichever side knows that the combat is coming. (And because of the way that the d20 system works, increasing numbers have an exponential effect on combat outcomes--against 4th level PCs, for instance, a 26 AC usually results in 33-50% less damage per round than a 24 AC but a 24 AC is only 25-33% better than a 22 AC). And that is almost certainly bad for the game--PCs will have even more trouble surviving ambushes; NPCs will be even more vulnerable when bushwhacked.

The long duration buffs, on the other hand mitigated that effect since both parties in the ambush would be likely to have long duration buffs active.

Those words right there are the major arguments "for" the reduction in duration, as you'll see when you read the threads.

DC

 

[Silver Griffon]

Just to fan the flames a little:
I have read somewhere on these boards that the stat boosting spells will be a flat +4 instead of 1d4+1 similar to d20 modern.
If that is correct and the Empower Spell and Maximize Spell feats remain unchanged they will not be able to affect these spells. That means Bull's Strength is always +4 Strength, and no more.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Yup, they are a flat +4 bonus, and yes, the point was to prevent Empower abuse.

 

[Kraedin]

Empower abuse? Using up an 8th level spell slot for a +(1d4+1)(1.5+.5+.5) enhancement bonus to an ability score was abuse? That's ludicrous.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You could exceed the magic item with the spell ... that was ludicrous.

Even more ludicrous, however, is polymorph other. Oh yeah, both effects stacked

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: 3.5 Bull's Strength

Those words right there are the major arguments "for" the reduction in duration, as you'll see when you read the threads.

And the major argument against is that by reducing their duration, they likely drop from the "useful" category to the "never used" category. The limited duration essentially makes them "combat only" spells, and actions for clerics and wizards in combat are almost always too valuable to be wasted on a minor buff.

Cast a fireball or magic missile or give the fighter a small buff? I think that the answer in almost all situations is pretty obvious.

 

[Kraedin]

The 8th level spell slot is more valuble than the magical item, so I would hope so.

At 15th level, you have 1 8th level spell and 200,000 gp. Which one would you rather expend to get a bonus to an abilty score?

The only real instances of Empower Spell abuse occur when you start to throw splatbooks and the Forgotten Realms into the mix -- while the Incanatrix with a lesser Empowering rod is abusive, it's not the fox's cunning or Empower spell that's causing problems.