D&D 2E 2e Kits into 4e Themes

[Knightfall]

To be honest, I don't have the DS CS book, so I'm not fully familiar with themes. I don't think I'm a good person to go to for feedback on this. Sorry!

I will say that, in general, I don't like the way themes have been implemented, because they are 4e's worst example of power creep. Other than themes (and backgrounds), 4e has been very good about keeping the playing field level so that a PH1 pc has approximately equal power as an Essentials pc. Themes and backgrounds are the two things that throw an extra bone to pcs; much like kits in 2e, I don't use them.

Hmm, good to know.

I don't have the Dark Sun books either.

I like Themes and Backgrounds. I want the PC's to have better defined characters and I know that rewarding them mechanically is one way to do that. I have to adjust all of my monsters anyway, so I don't mind a little power creep if it adds some flavor as well.

Personally, I really like themes but I can do without backgrounds.

 

[Knightfall]

Personally, I love themes. The Blade theme you have here, in particular, I can certainly enjoy and relate to, and I would allow this one in my DS game with no worries.

Thanks.

Do you have any suggestions for the 10th level utility exploit? I'm still stuck on that... not that I've been working on this lately. My 3.5 world is taking up all my mental energy right now.

As to power creep; this only comes into effect if you play DS. Athas is notoriously brutal, so the designers built in an extra mechanic to help the players survive. So, at 1st level, all characters choose a theme and get an extra encounter power, thereby making them more powerful than a standard D&D world PC.

Themes are a perfect fit for Dark Sun. The world has always been a tough place to survive so PCs often need an extra boost.

However, this mechanic can very easily be implemented in a standard D&D world without the danger of power creep. Simply, at 1st level, allow the player to choose a theme. Instead of receiving an extra encounter power, they have the choice to choose the theme's power in lieu of the class encounter power. Then, from that point on, they would progress with themes just like Dark Sun does.

You know, that's exactly what I was thinking. The granted power is chosen instead of the class encounter power. Great minds think alike.

 

[Noctos]

Personally, I really like themes but I can do without backgrounds.

people with out back grounds better have a good reason. but back grouds are one of the most important things a player has. i gues i just didn't create total hack and slash worlds. like most DM's must do. the back ground is a great plot device and if you dont have a back ground how did you even get teamed up with people to go out questing. how does the DM bring in things to trouble you as a person if you have no history he can take from.

If a player joined my world with no back ground it would be his biggest mistake as i would fill it in my self with things to annoy them every session

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I've recently started a new campaign, and was having a hard time explaining to some of the players what a theme would be like. The Dark Sun ones are not flavour appropriate for this arc, so I asked the players to be creative, but I don't think they know what to do with it.

Asking them to think of it like a 2e Kit would be very helpful indeed, since most of them are veterans of earlier editions.

Keep up the good work here. Blade was my favourite too, and I think you've done it justice.

 

[the Jester]

people with out back grounds better have a good reason. but back grouds are one of the most important things a player has. i gues i just didn't create total hack and slash worlds. like most DM's must do. the back ground is a great plot device and if you dont have a back ground how did you even get teamed up with people to go out questing. how does the DM bring in things to trouble you as a person if you have no history he can take from.

Sure, every pc should have a background in the sense of where they came from, how they became an adventurer, etc. What I don't like is the post-PH1 tendency to give mechanical benefits for backgrounds.

 

[the-golem]

Sure, every pc should have a background in the sense of where they came from, how they became an adventurer, etc. What I don't like is the post-PH1 tendency to give mechanical benefits for backgrounds.

Some backgrounds are outright broken, true. Most backgrounds,though, give a simple +2 to a skill or add it to your current skill list. A rare few give a new language as an option. As a DM, if I player came to me with a fitting background, I would have done the same kind of thing anyway, as I award flavor, so I personally don't see a problem with it.

On the flip-side, if you came to me with a background that had no logical reason for your character, ie purely a mechanical one, I'd look at you quizzically and request you take something else. You can take as many backgrounds as you want, but you only get the benefit with one. I don't really see this as game breaking, but I can understand if you dislike it.

Also, on the themes. Taking a theme gives you access to one theme feature automatically. In essence, they're paragon paths for heroic level. The other available powers are only available as options. You don't get them in addition to your other powers; it's an either/or option.

I must say this about the given theme powers, they scale faster than the standard powers given. If you take a level 5 theme daily, for example, it improves at level 15, and again at level 25. (As you can see with the primary example)

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I have no issue with most of the benefits granted by backgrounds. Some of them though, the ones that became "auto-pick" on the CharOp boards, those are the ones I don't like.

The ones that give your starting HP from your highest stat. Windrise Ports (been errata'd), and the resistance boosting one. There are a few more.

But bonus languages, +2 (or even +3) to a skill, adding skills to your class list - I think these are pretty harmless, and actually good flavour to add to a character.