D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

[Minigiant]

You need to reset to add advantage/disadvantage? Buddy, you aint convincing anybody.

You need to reset to add

1. Advantage
2. Subclasses
3. Warlocks
4. Sorcerer
5. Dragonborn
6. Short rests
7. Feats
8. Skills
9. Maneuvers
10. Unified XP
11. Unified spell progression
12. Unified martial progression.

It's not just one thing. It's a lot to add. Too much to patch on.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You need to reset to add

1. Advantage
2. Subclasses
3. Warlocks
4. Sorcerer
5. Dragonborn
6. Short rests
7. Feats
8. Skills
9. Maneuvers
10. Unified XP
11. Unified spell progression
12. Unified martial progression.

It's not just one thing. It's a lot to add. Too much to patch on.

I'm not convinced a reset is required for that whole list, and even if it were, we have to ask the question: do we need all those things?

 

[Minigiant]

I'm not convinced a reset is required for that whole list, and even if it were, we have to ask the question: do we need all those things?

Depends on the we.

Could many fans be happy with not having all of that? Yes.

Would you have the most successful RPG in the market without all of that? Maybe for a couple years. Then some RPG with it will.

Can you paste all of that on a 20, 30, 40, or 50 year or system without a reset and be the most successful RPG? Same as above

What's the difference between a RPG that replaces everything or a new edition? One is clunkier.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Im bummed about the modularity too (though I never thought 1E next to 3E across from 4E PCs at the same table was ever possible). Modularity is still on the table and likely a stronger tool int he incremental tool kit. They just haven't had to reach for it yet.

I don't see how that's even remotely possible. The game, as it exists, cannot accommodate a character anywhere near simple enough to satisfy a 1e/2e fan; the closest fit, Champion, is and remains awful, and the playtest has done little to nothing to fix this problem. Conversely, with the slapdash """balance""" of 5e and dearth of meaningful choices whether in or out of combat, plus the bizarre culture of play that ensures 5e skills are incredibly narrow in scope despite the text not actually doing anything to foster such a notion, it's essentially impossible to get an experience even distantly like 4e.

"Modularity" in any meaningful sense is dead, and no amount of iterative change will resurrect it. You would need to rewrite core math components--not to mention a MUCH bigger overhaul of classes and (especially) spells than WotC is willing to consider--to even attempt it. At the very, absolute least, no amount of iterative improvement can add strong tactical play to 5e, and no amount of iterative improvement can remove the abundance of magic in 5e. Those two things nix 4e-style and old-school-style right out the gate. The only way to get them is for the DM to extensively house-rule, at which point it isn't even 5e doing it, it's the DM creating her own game built off of 5e.

Which, you may note...is what a lot of the early/prominent podcast groups did. Many of them either built their own game, or switched to a game someone else made that better fit what they wanted to do. Funny how often that's happened.

You need to reset to add advantage/disadvantage? Buddy, you aint convincing anybody.

Certainly at this point we would need to reset to fix how they used--or, rather, abused--Advantage in 5e. A fault I predicted before the game was even published. I could see the writing on the wall. They would over-use it to a crippling degree, because it was simultaneously a weapon of both first and last resort. The only part I didn't predict was how early they would start adding ways to break Advantage wide open (e.g. Elven Accuracy's super-advantage.)

 

[Vaalingrade]

You need to reset to add advantage/disadvantage? Buddy, you aint convincing anybody.

They did though.

Imagine someone coming into 3e and telling the existing playerbase at the time that suddenly their stacking, granular bonuses were getting Thanos snapped in order to try again with no actual bonus because we the company think newbies can't add 2.

Remember that is a playerbase that undertook a subversion and misinformation campaign in retaliation for actually addressing their complaints while there was a clone product of the existing game they wanted on the market.

That would not have gone well.

Not to mention Advtange wouldn't have been a major design element if they didn't iterate and let Paizo go.

 

[payn]

They did though.

Imagine someone coming into 3e and telling the existing playerbase at the time that suddenly their stacking, granular bonuses were getting Thanos snapped in order to try again with no actual bonus because we the company think newbies can't add 2.

Remember that is a playerbase that undertook a subversion and misinformation campaign in retaliation for actually addressing their complaints while there was a clone product of the existing game they wanted on the market.

That would not have gone well.

Please dont do this. You dont speak for anybody but yourself.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Please dont do this. You dont speak for anybody but yourself.

Okay, we're cherrypicked three words. Now to my response to you point?

 

[payn]

Okay, we're cherrypicked three words. Now to my response to you point?

Too late, I dont care to continue this exchange with you. Happy holidays.

 

[Parmandur]

Im bummed about the modularity too (though I never thought 1E next to 3E across from 4E PCs at the same table was ever possible). Modularity is still on the table and likely a stronger tool int he incremental tool kit. They just haven't had to reach for it yet.

5E delivered a fully modular system: what changed from that article in question was that WotC did the market research and found out which modules would sell.

 

[payn]

5E delivered a fully modular system: what changed from that article in question was that WotC did the market research and found out which modules would sell.

Yeah, we been over this. Let's just say I want a lot more modules actually delivered than whats available.