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What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Apocalypse World Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9323641" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>No, what we're saying is it is pretty easy for a certain sort of people to warp the rules and procedures of Dungeon World and create a different game, which they fail to recognize is NOT DUNGEON WORLD, and the play it and think they've been playing DW. This happens all the time, to such a huge extent that it is a whole meme in PbtA circles and many people excoriate DW's design in response.</p><p></p><p>As you properly point out, AW does say nothing, but it doesn't PRETEND to say something, and it doesn't provide coloring book lines. It simply presents characters as fully formed human beings with all the potentiality of that humanness and puts them in a milieu where those moral questions are supposed to be, and bound to actually be, tested. D&D on the other hand gives us fairy tale morality and then underlies it with a paradigm of looting and pillaging where the REAL goal is to accumulate gold pieces (and thus XP). If a D&D game DOES focus on those moral questions, alignment does nothing and even gets in the way, and it is likely games will implode for one of several reasons unless the players basically agree to 'not look behind the curtain'. </p><p></p><p>I'm not saying you cannot play a D&D game where you focus on morality. I'm just saying that the game is of no help to you there, and because the situations are largely of the GM's devising that focus is reflecting more her agenda vs that of the players or maybe even the group as a whole. I've seen plenty of trad games where D&D blew up because people were on different pages about "the baby goblin problem" or some similar thing. I mean, it's a meme for a reason! I've never yet heard of a PbtA game which crumbled for that sort of reason. I guess it could happen, but it just seems like the generally more central nature of character makes it more likely that players are prepared to navigate that? I mean, in a lot of cases it is defanged by the premise, no character in BitD is a morally upstanding individual, by definition (or if they are, there's some serious backstory to THAT).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9323641, member: 82106"] No, what we're saying is it is pretty easy for a certain sort of people to warp the rules and procedures of Dungeon World and create a different game, which they fail to recognize is NOT DUNGEON WORLD, and the play it and think they've been playing DW. This happens all the time, to such a huge extent that it is a whole meme in PbtA circles and many people excoriate DW's design in response. As you properly point out, AW does say nothing, but it doesn't PRETEND to say something, and it doesn't provide coloring book lines. It simply presents characters as fully formed human beings with all the potentiality of that humanness and puts them in a milieu where those moral questions are supposed to be, and bound to actually be, tested. D&D on the other hand gives us fairy tale morality and then underlies it with a paradigm of looting and pillaging where the REAL goal is to accumulate gold pieces (and thus XP). If a D&D game DOES focus on those moral questions, alignment does nothing and even gets in the way, and it is likely games will implode for one of several reasons unless the players basically agree to 'not look behind the curtain'. I'm not saying you cannot play a D&D game where you focus on morality. I'm just saying that the game is of no help to you there, and because the situations are largely of the GM's devising that focus is reflecting more her agenda vs that of the players or maybe even the group as a whole. I've seen plenty of trad games where D&D blew up because people were on different pages about "the baby goblin problem" or some similar thing. I mean, it's a meme for a reason! I've never yet heard of a PbtA game which crumbled for that sort of reason. I guess it could happen, but it just seems like the generally more central nature of character makes it more likely that players are prepared to navigate that? I mean, in a lot of cases it is defanged by the premise, no character in BitD is a morally upstanding individual, by definition (or if they are, there's some serious backstory to THAT). [/QUOTE]
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