D&D 4E Three general 4e mechanics questions.

[thanson02]

1} Is it definitively demonstrated anywhere that a natural 20 roll is an automatic hit? I understand that it "scores a critical hit", but I'm not completely certain that if 20 + to-hit-modifier doesn't reach the target's defense that it's actually a hit, critical or otherwise.

Player's Handbook 1, p. 276: (In Attack Results box, first column) "Automatic Hit: If you roll a natural 20 (the die shows a 20), your attack automatically hits."

2} Is there a known defined mechanic for granting one's self a saving throw against ongoing effects? I've got a situation where a character was on fire through the application of a Firepot. There's little information there; it's got (fire) as a keyword and it deals ongoing damage. The player asked if his character could "stop, drop, and roll". In 3e, a full-round action would put out flames. In 4e, I don't know what's appropriate given the characters are given an automatic save every round. Heal can be used to grant a saving throw to others, so that might work. I don't know if I should've let the character take a standard or a full round, or what to guaranteed stop the damage, or if that impacts the intention and balance of ongoing damage (what if it had been cold damage?)

Save Throws are on p. 279 in Player's Handbook 1. According to the rules, "if you are under a persistent effect or condition that can be ended by a save ("save ends"), you have a chance to escape the effect each round at the end of your turn". I have not run into any ongoing effects that don't say "save ends", especially with damage. That would throw the combat mechanics WAY OFF. And really, it is actually really strait forward. If it says "save ends", you can try to save at the end of your turn. Otherwise, if you do something through your actions that would normally end the effect, such as jumping into water if you are on fire or covered with acid, the DM will make the call and the effect ends. Remember in 4E, specific beats general (p. 11, Player's Handbook 1). If a particular situation contradicts the core rules, then it supersedes the core rules. So, if you do something that would warrants the end of a effect even though the rules don't say it will, then (with the DMs okay) the effect will end.

3} Is there any statement that prevents multiple shifts in a round? If a character were to shift as a move, then shift as a standard, this would be valid, yes?

Thanks for any helpful input anyone has. These are three concerns that have arisen in our group's first session of KotS. I'm trying to be conservative to avoid us learning bad habits, but I don't want to needlessly penalize my players.

Totally Legit. Yes, you can exchange one combat action with another, which will allow you to move up to twice in a round. However, you end up giving up your Standard Action to do so, so you cannot move twice and then use an attack option unless you spend an action point. And if you really want to, you can spend your action point to get another Standard Action and cash it in for a third move action (useful if you are trying to get away from an enemy who is about to kill you). The breakdown of the different combinations are on p. 268 in Player's Handbook 1.

 

[The Human Target]

This thread is from 2008.

I think he probably figured it out.

 

[thanson02]

This thread is from 2008.

I think he probably figured it out.

I did. I also realized that no one answered the question either. Figured I would give 4E a solid in case someone happens to run into this like I did.

 

[MoutonRustique]

This thread is from 2008.

I think he probably figured it out.

But think of the relief if he hadn't!

He had to wait 8 years for his answer!

I can just picture him : "Finally!"

 

[Tony Vargas]

1} Is it definitively demonstrated anywhere that a natural 20 roll is an automatic hit? I understand that it "scores a critical hit", but I'm not completely certain that if 20 + to-hit-modifier doesn't reach the target's defense that it's actually a hit, critical or otherwise.

It's such a hoary rule going back so many editions that I never double-checked it. It really shouldn't often matter, though, since attacks vs defenses are fairly neatly balanced in 4e.

2} Is there a known defined mechanic for granting one's self a saving throw against ongoing effects?

There's a Heal check to grant a save. It doesn't say anything about not being able to 'heal thyself' IIRC.

I've got a situation where a character was on fire through the application of a Firepot. There's little information there; it's got (fire) as a keyword and it deals ongoing damage. The player asked if his character could "stop, drop, and roll".

Sure, spending an action on some activity that logically should have a chance of ending a given effect is perfectly reasonable justification for a save.

3} Is there any statement that prevents multiple shifts in a round? If a character were to shift as a move, then shift as a standard, this would be valid, yes?

Yes.