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Thinking About the Purpose of Mechanics from a Neo-Trad Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8993274" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>Yup, in fact, some examples of these kinds of RPs include things like Wolf Pack RPs where things (in my experience) were mainly happening to let the PC wolves interact, dicker, and so forth, or indeed yeah you could have your RP be a bar setup of people who regularly show up and banter with each other. I think you see that a lot with RPs that are essentially Original Character Showcases, where you just take a character who's been floating around in your head and they walk in and interact with other characters.</p><p></p><p>VTM is probably a good example game actually-- it gives you rules for being vampires, and in theory it was a game of personal horror but in reality you had:</p><p></p><p>1. Personal Horror where people laid it on thick.</p><p>2. Parlor LARPs where you'd play socially with other people, which is a lot of hanging out and chatting.</p><p>3. Trenchcoats and Katanas where Princes or whatever give you quests to go beat up vampires causing trouble and maybe you fight an elder eventually.</p><p>4. Interpersonal dramas that ended up being more about relationships with a goth edge of "we're vampires" also the usual found family narrative.</p><p>5. Even more intense political games where the players try to mastermind their way to the top of the city.</p><p>6. Trad style DM planned campaigns where you're along for the ride, and all those other things are part of the world you're playing in but not really being driven by you.</p><p></p><p>VTM as played, largely didn't enforce any of these things, and all of them are percolating in 90s VTM war stories to this day. It was a clunky system, but the culture that surrounded it was a bit more neotrad in that regard-- it's not hard to see the signs of people developing quirky or melodramatic OCs and avoid ever having to part with them.</p><p></p><p>I think Lancer is actually an example too, super lightweight narrative mechanics, super crunchy combat when you eventually use it, and the game is actually very exacting about constraining even the GM making the combat into something the players can heavily optimize (as gonzo as the NPCs can be sometimes.) This makes sense, though, 4e was a major influence in producing it.</p><p></p><p>4e itself, pretty much exactly, we would only roll initiative every other session (partially because of how long combat took) and the in between sessions would be a lot of shmoozing, exploring, having dramatic scenes and campfire talks, and so forth.</p><p></p><p>I could do it even easier in PF2e if I wanted to, using all the dedicated subsystems, the game devotes a lot to combat, but it doesn't actually force you to fight and gives enough mechanical support to other things that I'd hesitate to say it would even feel wrong-- and it would make a lot of sense in a game where naughty word does eventually hit the fan.</p><p></p><p>Also, even though they play 5e, Critical Role's style of playing DND in the first two campaigns, where characters have such strong personalities and interpersonal motivation, has a very potent neotrad influence, though Matt ties it all together into a trad story-- which is all part of the reason that community gets <em>very testy </em>when a character dies, because they're thought of more as these kinds of eternal OCs, and are so interrelated to wish fulfillment.</p><p></p><p>Which actually I'd even point out:</p><p></p><p>While you can build for it, Neo-Trad historically tends to happen where it isn't forbidden, rather than where it's deliberately produced.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8993274, member: 6801252"] Yup, in fact, some examples of these kinds of RPs include things like Wolf Pack RPs where things (in my experience) were mainly happening to let the PC wolves interact, dicker, and so forth, or indeed yeah you could have your RP be a bar setup of people who regularly show up and banter with each other. I think you see that a lot with RPs that are essentially Original Character Showcases, where you just take a character who's been floating around in your head and they walk in and interact with other characters. VTM is probably a good example game actually-- it gives you rules for being vampires, and in theory it was a game of personal horror but in reality you had: 1. Personal Horror where people laid it on thick. 2. Parlor LARPs where you'd play socially with other people, which is a lot of hanging out and chatting. 3. Trenchcoats and Katanas where Princes or whatever give you quests to go beat up vampires causing trouble and maybe you fight an elder eventually. 4. Interpersonal dramas that ended up being more about relationships with a goth edge of "we're vampires" also the usual found family narrative. 5. Even more intense political games where the players try to mastermind their way to the top of the city. 6. Trad style DM planned campaigns where you're along for the ride, and all those other things are part of the world you're playing in but not really being driven by you. VTM as played, largely didn't enforce any of these things, and all of them are percolating in 90s VTM war stories to this day. It was a clunky system, but the culture that surrounded it was a bit more neotrad in that regard-- it's not hard to see the signs of people developing quirky or melodramatic OCs and avoid ever having to part with them. I think Lancer is actually an example too, super lightweight narrative mechanics, super crunchy combat when you eventually use it, and the game is actually very exacting about constraining even the GM making the combat into something the players can heavily optimize (as gonzo as the NPCs can be sometimes.) This makes sense, though, 4e was a major influence in producing it. 4e itself, pretty much exactly, we would only roll initiative every other session (partially because of how long combat took) and the in between sessions would be a lot of shmoozing, exploring, having dramatic scenes and campfire talks, and so forth. I could do it even easier in PF2e if I wanted to, using all the dedicated subsystems, the game devotes a lot to combat, but it doesn't actually force you to fight and gives enough mechanical support to other things that I'd hesitate to say it would even feel wrong-- and it would make a lot of sense in a game where naughty word does eventually hit the fan. Also, even though they play 5e, Critical Role's style of playing DND in the first two campaigns, where characters have such strong personalities and interpersonal motivation, has a very potent neotrad influence, though Matt ties it all together into a trad story-- which is all part of the reason that community gets [I]very testy [/I]when a character dies, because they're thought of more as these kinds of eternal OCs, and are so interrelated to wish fulfillment. Which actually I'd even point out: While you can build for it, Neo-Trad historically tends to happen where it isn't forbidden, rather than where it's deliberately produced. [/QUOTE]
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