Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Rise And Fall Of Evil Genius Games
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="sigfried" data-source="post: 9277041" data-attributes="member: 1798"><p>Until Morrus objects, I'm happy to agree to whatever topic. I just wanted to highlight we had a different sense of what the core subject was.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In my life (I'm 52 when writing this) I've had successes. I've had friends that have turned away from homophobia partly based on my discussions with them. I had a Christian friend in college with a lot of misconceptions about Jews, and who thought they should always pay special attention to black people who were in his store, and I helped him see how that was not in line with Christian teaching or even general kind behavior. I've had debate opponents, who over time and repeated interactions changed their tact and came to see the hypocrisy of some of their positions. It's not generally going to work with strangers on the internet, but sometimes those strangers can become friends or through repeated actions, at least they can come to respect and listen to you. You can google the Black gentleman who befriended and de-converted KKK members. People can be reached and it usually happens through kindness or their own realization based on personal experiences. When you find people who are bigots out of ignorance, and don't want to be ignorant, they are the easiest to reach. People who want to remain ignorant are the hardest, they will do anything to avoid the truth.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm old enough to remember before the internet, bigotry was even more common I'm sorry to say. But yes, these things can and do breed destructive ideas. But I agree generally with those sentiments.</p><p></p><p>I've done a fair bit of reading on this subject. Generally speaking, exclusion only intensifies people's belief that they are unjustly persecuted and therefore are justified in their views and isolates them from contrary evidence that may challenge their beliefs. It's almost always possible to find a more insulated and like minded social group to replace the more broad and diverse one.</p><p></p><p>You can read about this research here if you are inclined to.</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/josi.12520#:~:text=Thus%2C%20preliminary%20work%20showed%20that,a%20major%20part%20of%20radicalism.[/URL]</p><p></p><p>I think the benefit of exclusion is protection of vulnerable people and an effort to create a supportive and harmonious environment. All are laudable goals. But if you can get that and not be exclusionary, then that probably does the most good overall.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps. I got the impression people wanted I or EGG to shun or castigate the Facebook group members and moderator for their stated conservative political views. No one said specifically what they thought I should do, but that's the impression I was getting.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not trying to excuse anything. I'm only trying to witness to what I know, have seen, or experienced myself. Any judgments are just my own judgements. You get to make yours like anyone else.</p><p></p><p></p><p>None of those make bad behavior OK, except possibly e. There are words we accept in a given context, and don't in another, and knowing the context matters. Some of the more well known bigoted slurs can be spoken without censure by some people in some situations while being greatly offensive when used by others in other situations, generally when they are used by the people who they had been used against. That's only an example of why context can absolutely matter.</p><p></p><p>A and B speak to whether it happened at all, and only say that "I don't know" aka I cannot confirm or deny it. Plenty of things I can confirm, almost none I can deny. Some I can say, "it doesn't match the pattern of what I have seen" but that is about how likely a thing is, not whether or not it is actually true. C kind of fits into that category as well. I'm not telling anyone what to think, I'm presenting what I know, and its up to you what conclusion you draw from that information.</p><p></p><p>It's not OK to get angry when corrected for misgendering someone. That said, I've never seen that happen at EGG. That doesn't mean it never has, but it does mean that if it did happen, it was out of character for the company.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If I were worried about my reputation, I'd just be silent and hide. I'm not ashamed of myself or my views, nor do I need everyone to like or agree with them. I can never please everyone, so I don't try.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Look, if I really believed my boss was a bigot or a monster, I'd have left. I came close due to what I would characterize as poor leadership/management, but after some long hard discussions, I decided to stay (an earlier post lists my reasons). That doesn't make me an apologist. Just because I still work on this team (which includes amazing and wonderful people) does not mean I think all is roses and sunshine. It means I think that redemption is possible and that in some cases, the sins are not as bad as some may want you to believe. But I will not excuse anything, or deny anything, or attack anyone involved. I will only explain and report and leave you to judge for yourself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="sigfried, post: 9277041, member: 1798"] Until Morrus objects, I'm happy to agree to whatever topic. I just wanted to highlight we had a different sense of what the core subject was. In my life (I'm 52 when writing this) I've had successes. I've had friends that have turned away from homophobia partly based on my discussions with them. I had a Christian friend in college with a lot of misconceptions about Jews, and who thought they should always pay special attention to black people who were in his store, and I helped him see how that was not in line with Christian teaching or even general kind behavior. I've had debate opponents, who over time and repeated interactions changed their tact and came to see the hypocrisy of some of their positions. It's not generally going to work with strangers on the internet, but sometimes those strangers can become friends or through repeated actions, at least they can come to respect and listen to you. You can google the Black gentleman who befriended and de-converted KKK members. People can be reached and it usually happens through kindness or their own realization based on personal experiences. When you find people who are bigots out of ignorance, and don't want to be ignorant, they are the easiest to reach. People who want to remain ignorant are the hardest, they will do anything to avoid the truth. I'm old enough to remember before the internet, bigotry was even more common I'm sorry to say. But yes, these things can and do breed destructive ideas. But I agree generally with those sentiments. I've done a fair bit of reading on this subject. Generally speaking, exclusion only intensifies people's belief that they are unjustly persecuted and therefore are justified in their views and isolates them from contrary evidence that may challenge their beliefs. It's almost always possible to find a more insulated and like minded social group to replace the more broad and diverse one. You can read about this research here if you are inclined to. [URL unfurl="true"]https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/josi.12520#:~:text=Thus%2C%20preliminary%20work%20showed%20that,a%20major%20part%20of%20radicalism.[/URL] I think the benefit of exclusion is protection of vulnerable people and an effort to create a supportive and harmonious environment. All are laudable goals. But if you can get that and not be exclusionary, then that probably does the most good overall. Perhaps. I got the impression people wanted I or EGG to shun or castigate the Facebook group members and moderator for their stated conservative political views. No one said specifically what they thought I should do, but that's the impression I was getting. I'm not trying to excuse anything. I'm only trying to witness to what I know, have seen, or experienced myself. Any judgments are just my own judgements. You get to make yours like anyone else. None of those make bad behavior OK, except possibly e. There are words we accept in a given context, and don't in another, and knowing the context matters. Some of the more well known bigoted slurs can be spoken without censure by some people in some situations while being greatly offensive when used by others in other situations, generally when they are used by the people who they had been used against. That's only an example of why context can absolutely matter. A and B speak to whether it happened at all, and only say that "I don't know" aka I cannot confirm or deny it. Plenty of things I can confirm, almost none I can deny. Some I can say, "it doesn't match the pattern of what I have seen" but that is about how likely a thing is, not whether or not it is actually true. C kind of fits into that category as well. I'm not telling anyone what to think, I'm presenting what I know, and its up to you what conclusion you draw from that information. It's not OK to get angry when corrected for misgendering someone. That said, I've never seen that happen at EGG. That doesn't mean it never has, but it does mean that if it did happen, it was out of character for the company. If I were worried about my reputation, I'd just be silent and hide. I'm not ashamed of myself or my views, nor do I need everyone to like or agree with them. I can never please everyone, so I don't try. Look, if I really believed my boss was a bigot or a monster, I'd have left. I came close due to what I would characterize as poor leadership/management, but after some long hard discussions, I decided to stay (an earlier post lists my reasons). That doesn't make me an apologist. Just because I still work on this team (which includes amazing and wonderful people) does not mean I think all is roses and sunshine. It means I think that redemption is possible and that in some cases, the sins are not as bad as some may want you to believe. But I will not excuse anything, or deny anything, or attack anyone involved. I will only explain and report and leave you to judge for yourself. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Rise And Fall Of Evil Genius Games
Top