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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9338081" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>You should be able to find it quickly if it exists.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well the adventure I pulled that from had I think 12 in one room and 8 in another.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It covers a 20 foot radius circle, not a 40x40 square.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What kind of monsters do you think you are fighting at high level?</p><p></p><p>That is what you are fighting at high level. You aren't fighting enemies from the Monster Manual because those enemies are low CR.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Legendary action: The Archaic uses Teleport</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/2160296-archaic[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Misty Step. Level 2 spell.</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/96157-drow-favored-consort[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To be clear I said Teleport/plane shift</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When you add in creatures that can move off turn it is over half</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That 289 includes duplicates that are published more than one place. It is more like 150 unique monsters.</p><p></p><p>Teleportation, plane shift and off turn movement combined are very common at this level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No once a round, which is all that is needed to escape the Web. Also other AOEs do not all trigger off turn like web does. That is what makes this option so weak.</p><p></p><p>Also if it burrows under your web they can't unless they go in the web to do it, because it would have full cover.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Off the top of my head: Heroism, Potion of Herosim, Darkness, Bardic Inspiration, Fog Cloud, Calm Emotions, Countercharm, Heroes Feast, Stand near a Paladin,</p><p></p><p>TBH I think there are more ways to counter frightened then there are to counter lightning.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes they do, Blind Fighting fighting style and closing your eyes eliminates the disadvantage on attacks and checks associated with Frightened without any resource drain .... and in case you missed it most fighters have magic, especially most high level fighters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe they do or maybe they don't, but they can't target him with most of them after he burrows into the ground.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A Monk using Focused Aim, Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike will drain legendaries much, much faster than Web. It will even drain it significantly faster than you using a different spell the Dragon can't escape from and that is a severely debilitating condition. Even a Monk still probably can't get him to 0 before he dies though.</p><p></p><p>The Fighter is not going to take 15 attacks, probably more like 8.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>On the other hand I know what tactics you need in an encounter, and Web is terrible in this one. It has almost no chance of doing anything to the Dragon. Something else like Wall of Fire or even Faerie Fire would be a different story but Web is just plain horrible, and there are likely better ways to achieve what you are trying with Web. For example if you didn't have a Rune Knight, with the same 2nd level slot the Wizard could cast Enlarge on the Fighter and he could go grapple and prone the Dragon and while he would not be as good as the RK at doing it has a much better chance of success than Web does.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here you go, I can back up what I say:</p><p></p><p><em>"2) While yes, higher level spells are often stronger, that doesn't mean low-level spells are weak. Web is an example I bring up fairly often, it is a low level spell, and not an IMMEDIATE fight ender, so will the DM use a legendary resistance on it? But, if you fail the dex save, then it takes an action to break out. And if you are trying to make distance, this can translate<strong> into two turns </strong>of the enemy being unable to hit the party, while granting advantage to the parties attacks. And the fighter.... can't replicate this, unless they take the web spell. The only fighter who even has an ability to restrain an enemy AT ALL is the Rune Knight, and it is a save at end of turn and fire damage."</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><em> "<strong>Not being able to move, </strong>all attacks against you have advantage, all of your attacks have disadvantage, you have disadvantage on dex saves"... not very bad for a lot of enemies?"</em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>"So... 40% chance to restrain the dragon,</strong> preventing all melee attacks against the party. For the cost of a 2nd level spell, at 17th level. "</em></p><p></p><p>So yes you tried to use it as an example of a low level spell that is good to use on an Adult Dragon. That is where this started</p><p></p><p> All the things in bold are objectively untrue and you said all them: It is not two turns because it does not take effect when you cast it, it does not make the Dragon unable to move until its turn and it has nowhere near a 40% chance to restrain the Dragon because the majority of time the Dragon will not even be there at the start of his turn</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know why, but casting Web on a Dragon does this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Player agency. Players decide what they want to do, not the DM, not the other players</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Planning and talking about how you want to tackle a fight, during the fight, is metagaming. You are discussing options of what each of you are going to do on your turn and that is not information the character whos turn it is would have in his turn. It is metagaming.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure ahead of time, not during it though.</p><p></p><p>For example you are sneaking through the castle and a servant bringing the empty bottles back from the dinner party stumbles across you. You can tell him you are the new palace guards, you can offer him 100 gold to look the other way, you can say were at the dinner party and got lost, you can attack him and try to take him out quickly. But if you sit and discuss which of those you are going to do and who is going to do it; that is metagaming.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9338081, member: 7030563"] You should be able to find it quickly if it exists. Well the adventure I pulled that from had I think 12 in one room and 8 in another. It covers a 20 foot radius circle, not a 40x40 square. What kind of monsters do you think you are fighting at high level? That is what you are fighting at high level. You aren't fighting enemies from the Monster Manual because those enemies are low CR. Legendary action: The Archaic uses Teleport [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/2160296-archaic[/URL] Misty Step. Level 2 spell. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/96157-drow-favored-consort[/URL] To be clear I said Teleport/plane shift When you add in creatures that can move off turn it is over half That 289 includes duplicates that are published more than one place. It is more like 150 unique monsters. Teleportation, plane shift and off turn movement combined are very common at this level. No once a round, which is all that is needed to escape the Web. Also other AOEs do not all trigger off turn like web does. That is what makes this option so weak. Also if it burrows under your web they can't unless they go in the web to do it, because it would have full cover. Off the top of my head: Heroism, Potion of Herosim, Darkness, Bardic Inspiration, Fog Cloud, Calm Emotions, Countercharm, Heroes Feast, Stand near a Paladin, TBH I think there are more ways to counter frightened then there are to counter lightning. Yes they do, Blind Fighting fighting style and closing your eyes eliminates the disadvantage on attacks and checks associated with Frightened without any resource drain .... and in case you missed it most fighters have magic, especially most high level fighters. Maybe they do or maybe they don't, but they can't target him with most of them after he burrows into the ground. A Monk using Focused Aim, Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike will drain legendaries much, much faster than Web. It will even drain it significantly faster than you using a different spell the Dragon can't escape from and that is a severely debilitating condition. Even a Monk still probably can't get him to 0 before he dies though. The Fighter is not going to take 15 attacks, probably more like 8. On the other hand I know what tactics you need in an encounter, and Web is terrible in this one. It has almost no chance of doing anything to the Dragon. Something else like Wall of Fire or even Faerie Fire would be a different story but Web is just plain horrible, and there are likely better ways to achieve what you are trying with Web. For example if you didn't have a Rune Knight, with the same 2nd level slot the Wizard could cast Enlarge on the Fighter and he could go grapple and prone the Dragon and while he would not be as good as the RK at doing it has a much better chance of success than Web does. Here you go, I can back up what I say: [I]"2) While yes, higher level spells are often stronger, that doesn't mean low-level spells are weak. Web is an example I bring up fairly often, it is a low level spell, and not an IMMEDIATE fight ender, so will the DM use a legendary resistance on it? But, if you fail the dex save, then it takes an action to break out. And if you are trying to make distance, this can translate[B] into two turns [/B]of the enemy being unable to hit the party, while granting advantage to the parties attacks. And the fighter.... can't replicate this, unless they take the web spell. The only fighter who even has an ability to restrain an enemy AT ALL is the Rune Knight, and it is a save at end of turn and fire damage." [I] "[B]Not being able to move, [/B]all attacks against you have advantage, all of your attacks have disadvantage, you have disadvantage on dex saves"... not very bad for a lot of enemies?"[/I] [B]"So... 40% chance to restrain the dragon,[/B] preventing all melee attacks against the party. For the cost of a 2nd level spell, at 17th level. "[/I] So yes you tried to use it as an example of a low level spell that is good to use on an Adult Dragon. That is where this started All the things in bold are objectively untrue and you said all them: It is not two turns because it does not take effect when you cast it, it does not make the Dragon unable to move until its turn and it has nowhere near a 40% chance to restrain the Dragon because the majority of time the Dragon will not even be there at the start of his turn I don't know why, but casting Web on a Dragon does this. Player agency. Players decide what they want to do, not the DM, not the other players Planning and talking about how you want to tackle a fight, during the fight, is metagaming. You are discussing options of what each of you are going to do on your turn and that is not information the character whos turn it is would have in his turn. It is metagaming. Sure ahead of time, not during it though. For example you are sneaking through the castle and a servant bringing the empty bottles back from the dinner party stumbles across you. You can tell him you are the new palace guards, you can offer him 100 gold to look the other way, you can say were at the dinner party and got lost, you can attack him and try to take him out quickly. But if you sit and discuss which of those you are going to do and who is going to do it; that is metagaming. [/QUOTE]
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