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The Crab Bucket Fallacy
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<blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 9133650" data-attributes="member: 9053"><p>I think this is a really interesting discussion to have and it's something I've been thinking about recently since I finished up one game and am starting another. So a couple of thoughts.</p><p></p><p>First, you can't discount how different classes have different roles in the game. The wizard I'm playing now is really good at doing melee combat, but that's only as a wizard, not as a character like a barbarian who's just plain better at it than I am. Now I'm much better in terms of hindering or disabling groups of enemies and doing all of the things that only magical characters can do. In terms of being a team full of well-designed characters, I think this works. If you were to significantly increase the ability for a class in a role they don't normally fill, you would need to reduce them in another area or you'd have a character who's just better.</p><p></p><p>With that said, there are just some classes or subclasses that are just bad. That's a separate issue since this means that characters with these classes aren't good at things they are intended to be good at. I don't have a lot of experience with monks in 5E, but they have a reputation as being just a poorly designed class. Similarly, the champion fighter has a similar reputation. Is that reputation deserved? Don't know. But if you design a new class or alter one and it makes a bad class seem even worse, is that a problem with the new class, or does it mean the other class needs an adjustment?</p><p></p><p>It seems to me that class design needs to reflect ability in different roles and those that are just less effective where they are intended to be good need a boost. It does seem that the classes that are good tend to be reduced in power rather than the ones at the bottom end, unfortunately. That's interesting because it doesn't make me want to play the ones that are perceived as bad more, it just reduces the number of classes I want to play at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SteveC, post: 9133650, member: 9053"] I think this is a really interesting discussion to have and it's something I've been thinking about recently since I finished up one game and am starting another. So a couple of thoughts. First, you can't discount how different classes have different roles in the game. The wizard I'm playing now is really good at doing melee combat, but that's only as a wizard, not as a character like a barbarian who's just plain better at it than I am. Now I'm much better in terms of hindering or disabling groups of enemies and doing all of the things that only magical characters can do. In terms of being a team full of well-designed characters, I think this works. If you were to significantly increase the ability for a class in a role they don't normally fill, you would need to reduce them in another area or you'd have a character who's just better. With that said, there are just some classes or subclasses that are just bad. That's a separate issue since this means that characters with these classes aren't good at things they are intended to be good at. I don't have a lot of experience with monks in 5E, but they have a reputation as being just a poorly designed class. Similarly, the champion fighter has a similar reputation. Is that reputation deserved? Don't know. But if you design a new class or alter one and it makes a bad class seem even worse, is that a problem with the new class, or does it mean the other class needs an adjustment? It seems to me that class design needs to reflect ability in different roles and those that are just less effective where they are intended to be good need a boost. It does seem that the classes that are good tend to be reduced in power rather than the ones at the bottom end, unfortunately. That's interesting because it doesn't make me want to play the ones that are perceived as bad more, it just reduces the number of classes I want to play at all. [/QUOTE]
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