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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7614606" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>No, I want Infusions to be as they are in the playtest (they pretty much nailed them, in my opinion), except instead of spending the "Infused Items" resource on them, you spend spell slots on them. Mostly so that I can do something more interesting than cast spells with the spell slots you people insist the class must have.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's just a spellcasting focus. They can use thieves tools or artisan's tools as a spellcasting focus. That's no more unique than a cleric using a holy symbol or a druid using holly and mistletoe instead of a staff. I don't understand how you can honestly think that's remotely similar to spending spell slots to make things like Many Handed Pouches.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, they did. Infusions are a great bit of design. I just want a character that does that, and doesn't cast spells. Since apparently it's not Eberron if the Artificer doesn't cast spells, and apparently it's impossible to make an Eberron Artificier with spellcasting as a subclass feature, I've moved on to suggesting that they let us use spell slots on something other than spells, namely Infusions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>From the article, "Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after a number of days have passed equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1 day). The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion for another one."</p><p></p><p></p><p>No. I'm literally suggesting that you be able to spend spell slots to do more of those cool unique things instead of casting more boring spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. Just like the "Infused Items" resource, which this would replac.</p><p></p><p></p><p>During a long rest.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Good question. Perhaps by the level of the spell stored and the slot expended to create the item. The Spell Point conversion rate from the Sorcerer's Flexible Casting might be a good place to start.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. The party fighter can use an infused Enhanced Weapon, so I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use an infused wand of fireballs. That's also part of what makes it an item as opposed to just a spell you cast with your thieves' tools instead of a staff. I don't think it would be particularly unbalanced, given the inherent limitations of the Infuse Item feature.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Me, personally? I don't worry about it. I don't ever use my spell slots to cast spells, I just use them to infuse items, and I narrate it as my character having strong magical potential, but being unable to cast spells, perhaps due to lack of training or some form of disability, but channels that magical energy into items instead to overcome that limitation. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The matches can be lost, stolen, destroyed, stored and used at your leisure, handed to a friend, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I'm not. Spell storing items can quite literally do things spells cannot. See the match example.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I have never claimed the class does nothing unique. I said that "casting spells and describing them as something other than spells" is not a unique thing the class does.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Really? You could make permanent repeating crossbows with old-school Vancian spellcasting? Your spells could be transferred to other people? You could have your prepared spells stolen? Man, old-school Vancian was pretty different than I remember. </p><p> </p><p></p><p>Just because I didn't agree with your counterpoints doesn't mean I haven't been considering them.</p><p></p><p></p><p>My suggestion of spending spell slots on infusions is already a compromise. I'd prefer an Artificier that just didn't have spells, or at least had an option for playing without spells, and I think the easiest way to do that would be to make spellcasting a feature of one or more of the subclasses. But I was told that was impossible to make in a way that would satisfy the Eberron Artificier. So, I changed tac to suggesting that there be something the Artificer can spend spell slots on other than spells. Infusions seemed like a good candidate.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel like this is exactly what I'm suggesting, only you can make a spell storing item at any time instead of only at a long rest. I'd be perfectly fine with that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Whatever, I'm not concerned with it technically being "a spellcaster," as long as I don't have to actually cast spells and can use the spell slots on something that is not just a spell I used Tinkers Tools as a spellcasting focus for.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The class already <em>has</em> "Infusion Points," I'm suggesting <em>reducing</em> the complexity by getting rid of them and making spell slots the resource you spend on Infusions instead.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. I think that's design work worth doing though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7614606, member: 6779196"] No, I want Infusions to be as they are in the playtest (they pretty much nailed them, in my opinion), except instead of spending the "Infused Items" resource on them, you spend spell slots on them. Mostly so that I can do something more interesting than cast spells with the spell slots you people insist the class must have. Yes. It's just a spellcasting focus. They can use thieves tools or artisan's tools as a spellcasting focus. That's no more unique than a cleric using a holy symbol or a druid using holly and mistletoe instead of a staff. I don't understand how you can honestly think that's remotely similar to spending spell slots to make things like Many Handed Pouches. Yes, they did. Infusions are a great bit of design. I just want a character that does that, and doesn't cast spells. Since apparently it's not Eberron if the Artificer doesn't cast spells, and apparently it's impossible to make an Eberron Artificier with spellcasting as a subclass feature, I've moved on to suggesting that they let us use spell slots on something other than spells, namely Infusions. From the article, "Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after a number of days have passed equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1 day). The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion for another one." No. I'm literally suggesting that you be able to spend spell slots to do more of those cool unique things instead of casting more boring spells. Yes. Just like the "Infused Items" resource, which this would replac. During a long rest. Good question. Perhaps by the level of the spell stored and the slot expended to create the item. The Spell Point conversion rate from the Sorcerer's Flexible Casting might be a good place to start. Sure. The party fighter can use an infused Enhanced Weapon, so I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use an infused wand of fireballs. That's also part of what makes it an item as opposed to just a spell you cast with your thieves' tools instead of a staff. I don't think it would be particularly unbalanced, given the inherent limitations of the Infuse Item feature. Me, personally? I don't worry about it. I don't ever use my spell slots to cast spells, I just use them to infuse items, and I narrate it as my character having strong magical potential, but being unable to cast spells, perhaps due to lack of training or some form of disability, but channels that magical energy into items instead to overcome that limitation. The matches can be lost, stolen, destroyed, stored and used at your leisure, handed to a friend, etc. No, I'm not. Spell storing items can quite literally do things spells cannot. See the match example. I have never claimed the class does nothing unique. I said that "casting spells and describing them as something other than spells" is not a unique thing the class does. Really? You could make permanent repeating crossbows with old-school Vancian spellcasting? Your spells could be transferred to other people? You could have your prepared spells stolen? Man, old-school Vancian was pretty different than I remember. Just because I didn't agree with your counterpoints doesn't mean I haven't been considering them. My suggestion of spending spell slots on infusions is already a compromise. I'd prefer an Artificier that just didn't have spells, or at least had an option for playing without spells, and I think the easiest way to do that would be to make spellcasting a feature of one or more of the subclasses. But I was told that was impossible to make in a way that would satisfy the Eberron Artificier. So, I changed tac to suggesting that there be something the Artificer can spend spell slots on other than spells. Infusions seemed like a good candidate. I feel like this is exactly what I'm suggesting, only you can make a spell storing item at any time instead of only at a long rest. I'd be perfectly fine with that. Whatever, I'm not concerned with it technically being "a spellcaster," as long as I don't have to actually cast spells and can use the spell slots on something that is not just a spell I used Tinkers Tools as a spellcasting focus for. The class already [I]has[/I] "Infusion Points," I'm suggesting [I]reducing[/I] the complexity by getting rid of them and making spell slots the resource you spend on Infusions instead. Sure. I think that's design work worth doing though. [/QUOTE]
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