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Matt Colville on adventure length
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<blockquote data-quote="Gus L" data-source="post: 9325705" data-attributes="member: 7045072"><p>Absolutely - I think the story from Blackmoor illustrates this sort of attitude and I've noticed it when running older style games for players coming from newer play styles. </p><p></p><p>For example, when I was play testing Tomb Robbers of the Crystal Frontier my group included 3 new players that had only played very standard 5E before and 3 players that were more experienced with my games. In the first session 2 of 3 of the new guys died ... because they insisted on charging an owlbear under the assumption that they were "supposed to" and that it was the "mini-boss" of that part of the dungeon. It was not. It was a 4+HD predator that the random encounter table indicated was attracted by the sound of the party hacking gold inlay from the walls. </p><p></p><p>The funny thing was that the new players had gotten my email describing the distinctions between newer and older style games - and they had warnings from the other players. The positive side of the story is that it led to the game becoming about monster hunting - they did ultimately kill the owlbear, and the new players stayed on and enjoyed the knowledge that poor decisions had consequences for their PCs. </p><p></p><p>So the solution I would suggest to these issues is that one needs both a non-antagonistic referee (which is not hard really) and to understand player expectations. Some of the conflict I see in this discussion to some extent seems to around the idea that certain sets of player expectations are correct or better then others. For me the truth has been that when player expectations align with mechanics and play style one has a good game. The nice thing about high lethality systems is that those expectations can be reinforced or set quickly in game without disrupting the fiction. If a player doesn't want to play in tomb-robbing low powered dirtbag antihero world ... then they don't have to, but that's a different game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gus L, post: 9325705, member: 7045072"] Absolutely - I think the story from Blackmoor illustrates this sort of attitude and I've noticed it when running older style games for players coming from newer play styles. For example, when I was play testing Tomb Robbers of the Crystal Frontier my group included 3 new players that had only played very standard 5E before and 3 players that were more experienced with my games. In the first session 2 of 3 of the new guys died ... because they insisted on charging an owlbear under the assumption that they were "supposed to" and that it was the "mini-boss" of that part of the dungeon. It was not. It was a 4+HD predator that the random encounter table indicated was attracted by the sound of the party hacking gold inlay from the walls. The funny thing was that the new players had gotten my email describing the distinctions between newer and older style games - and they had warnings from the other players. The positive side of the story is that it led to the game becoming about monster hunting - they did ultimately kill the owlbear, and the new players stayed on and enjoyed the knowledge that poor decisions had consequences for their PCs. So the solution I would suggest to these issues is that one needs both a non-antagonistic referee (which is not hard really) and to understand player expectations. Some of the conflict I see in this discussion to some extent seems to around the idea that certain sets of player expectations are correct or better then others. For me the truth has been that when player expectations align with mechanics and play style one has a good game. The nice thing about high lethality systems is that those expectations can be reinforced or set quickly in game without disrupting the fiction. If a player doesn't want to play in tomb-robbing low powered dirtbag antihero world ... then they don't have to, but that's a different game. [/QUOTE]
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