D&D 3E/3.5 I like 3.5!

[Anubis]

Everybody has had many complaints about 3.5 thus far . . . Time for a more objective view to enter the picture.

I have seen the document that was posted detailing many of the changes in 3.5, and after careful consideration, I LIKE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. From what I could gathered, every change was an improvement with absolutely no exceptions!

WotC FINALLY did it!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I second that. There were very few things that I didn't like (with some you must think this over, with some you need the reasoning behind it, and with some you must view it without the fact that it changes something that one of your own charactes uses very often).

 

[Destil]

I'm about 50/50 for/against the changes. Maybe more like 60/40 even. Since this is clearly a thread for praise (or sarcasm...) I'll list what I like.

Standard / Move actions: It's so much cleaner than the old standard / move-equivalent / partial system. Same goes for the cleaner rules presentation in general, like AoOs and [hopefully] grappling.

The 'Big 3 Hs': Heal I never had any serious problem with, and I'd have been happy with a simple half save for Harm... but these three are much better off as a whole in the revision. Haste is no longer game breaking, is much closer to the original spell from older editions and is more party friendly. What's not to like?

Spell Schools: Transmutation looks much less bloated now. Very nice. The big three [Conj, Trans, Evoc] look roughly equal in power & utility and Necromancy finally makes it to full second rate status. If anything the original 3E school specialization rules are very well balanced now [as long as you consider Nec as equal to Ench, Illus & Abj].

Class changes:
Monks get much better unarmed BAB rules, a more reasonable Ki strike and flurry is good in it's own way compared to two weapon fighting.
Rangers get options and unique abilities.
Druids get some small changes and the big one: spontaneous summon nature's ally spells.
Bards are no longer one level wonders for the PCs who just dump lots of ranks into perform and have a nicer spell selection, even it it's a little less combat focused.
Paladins get more smites and a warhorse who's not a liability all too often. Though I really wish the new mount [or the old one, I'm not picky] was a variant in the DMG. Would have done a world of good, since this is largely a campaign style change.

All in all the classes all look a more balanced and laid out in a very good way [with features for almost every nonspellcasting class all the way to 20th]. This is by far the second best change.

The new tower shield: Yes! +4 AC. This is a TANKS shield, not some wimpy shield basher's off-hand weapon. A shame it's the same as a 2 point expertise with the attack penalty, but the cover option makes up for it in spades.

Square Facing: No more weird situations where a long creature needs to turn in a fight and it disrupts half the battle grid!

DR: DR XX/[magic] feels like one step forward, two steps back... but otherwise the new system works so much nicer for both challenging players, staying true to folklore on creatures like werewolves and being more interesting in general.

Concealment Simplification: 20% or 50%. It was so rare to use anything else, anyway, this is almost a non issue, since a DM can just re-introduce the old numbers when he needs them. Keeping it to two makes things much cleaner throughout the rules.

Magic Item prices: Armor with things like resistance & skill bonuses no longer has an exponential cost. [+XXX GP now, was +X bonus equivalence] From the looks of things it's treated as a simple 'unslotted' item. A huge improvement. Now if they just made is that rings have a universal [or very good unique] 'ability affinity' so there's some point to anything other than craft wondrous.

The new monster stat blocks: This is THE change. Having Grapple Bonus & Attack/Full Attack listed is the single best change in these books. Not seeing init broken down is also great [added insult to incontinence when you're trying to figure a purple worm's grapple bonus in the middle of the fight]. Save DCs for spell like abilities likewise saves a lot of cross reference. Consistent feats and skill points for monsters and a closer look at monsters that were converted without serious changes or considerations from 2E [and therefore sucked] is the icing on the cake.

There's much more, really. These were the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

PS : Okay, some subtle rants in there... sorry.
EDIT: Spelling.

 

[Technik4]

I'm down.

I like the new facings. Maybe Im a little biased as I bought heavily into chainmail and based everything round I still think its a good system in and of itself, I hated when PCs had long animal friends, and god forbid when somebody wanted to ride a horse...

"So, can I move AND attack?"

"Yes"

"Can I move AND Full Attack?"

"I think so."

"Which way do I have to face to hit X?"

"That way, its a move-equivelent to move"

"Can I turn, and then full attack? Whats my reach? Can my horse attack too? Does my horse get a full attack? What if I charge..."

Bleh. Granted, just changing the facing doesnt clear all of that up, but it seems we are on the road to ease.

I like a lot of the spell changes. I think since emphasis was on making 3e spells work with 3e instead of renewing spells from 2e we will see an overall more balanced set of spells.

Personally Im down with a lot of the wizard's durations going down. It validates creatures with high ECLs for flight, and to an extent a lot of points spent on Hide and Move Silently. I don't think utility spells were gutted, they were just toned down. I wish there was a metamagic that extended spell's durations by upgrading durations (eg- 1 min/level becomes 10 min/level becomes 1 hour/level becomes 24 hours becomes 1 day/level, etc).

Class changes are almost all beneficial, imo. Some are more needed than others, but on the whole I like what I've seen. The bard especially seems to be "what it should have been" from 3e's inception. I also like the tone of the new ranger, although I can see why people would quibble with it.

New magic item pricings make me sigh in relief. Gone is time spent wondering why everyone doesnt have boots of springing and striding and a glove of storing or 2. In fact, the work made to unify all of the movement bonuses in general is very welcome.

Overall I think the game will become easier to run, and more fun for all involved. Kudos to the 3.5 design team!

Technik

 

[Camarath]

I have mixed feelings at this point but I haven't seen the books yet so I can't make an informed judgement.

However this thread does not appear to belong in the rule fourm.

 

[Destil]

However this thread does not appear to belong in the rule fourm.

Accualy, the biggest change in the revision is the rules themselves, and I assumed it's what Anubis wanted to talk about... I didn't mention any of the art or anything, myself. Seams like a good enugh home for this thread.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I like all the changes to greater and lesser degrees.

Classes: less front loading, higher level gains, more flavour.

Combat: grapple rules I can explain to my players. No more horrible archer double stacking. Damage reduction with more character but not totally essential to have the right weapon.

Spells: splitting the multi-purpose spells so they are more visible, getting rid of effective 24/7 buffs as a class feature, nerfing the broken and filling the weak schools.

Magic items: getting the prices closer to the value players put on them.

Races: never needed much but nice to have ecl.

Skills and feats: the few tweaks and additions look ok.

Monsters: devils and demons which walk the talk. More AC, less weeny spell-like abilities and more (quickened) offensive grunt.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Me too!

In no particular order, I like that:

1) things are being scaled back;

2) things are being looked at as a whole;

3) rules were written with battle mats in mind;

4) core classes are being given long-term viability;

5) ease of use "out of the book" is improving

6) important info won't have to be "extracted" as much

7) costs are increasing

8) creatures are being made tougher

9) clarity is improving

10) design decisions are being based on this edition's mechanics

 

[Tharizdun]

Re: Me too!

In no particular order, I like that:

1) things are being scaled back;

2) things are being looked at as a whole;

3) rules were written with battle mats in mind;

4) core classes are being given long-term viability;

5) ease of use "out of the book" is improving

6) important info won't have to be "extracted" as much

7) costs are increasing

8) creatures are being made tougher

9) clarity is improving

10) design decisions are being based on this edition's mechanics

As a DM AND as a player I second the above. I only have my doubts about the DR...but ultimately the proof is in the pudding on that one