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How Effective Is Multiclassing?
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<blockquote data-quote="Kaodi" data-source="post: 7831176" data-attributes="member: 1231"><p>I do not have a definitive answer - I was just hoping to start a specific discussion. I certainly think it looks interesting and allows you to make more diverse characters. Lots of the builds I have worked on used it.</p><p></p><p>Different archetypes need more or less follow up to dip do the appropriate kind of shtick. </p><p></p><p>For ones that "give you something you want" for just the dedication:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Barbarian gives you Rage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Champion gives you trained in all armour.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter gives you trained in all simple and martial weapons. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monk gives you Powerful Fist (more or less just a better unarmed attack).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranger gives you Hunt Prey.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Then you have all the spellcasting dedications. You can do slightly different things depending on your tastes but generally you are going to need to spend four or five feats to get the spellcasting capability you want. You could stick with just the dedication, each one is basically a universal "Extra Cantrips" feat. But depending on your concept are probably going to go for the whole suite plus the appropriate Breadth feat, perhaps there is a niche scenario where you might skip Breadth though. And if you are trying to imitate something like the old Paladin or Ranger spellcasting you might skip Master Spellcasting but still get Breadth. </p><p></p><p>Then you have the Alchemist. With that class you only need three feats to get a pretty significant number of potions per day, with the only difference to the real Alchemist being you do not add your Int modifier to your daily reagents. And of course your free alchemical items are weaker, but there is value in quantity. </p><p></p><p>And then lastly you have the Rogue. While you could grab the Rogue multiclass feats primarily for the abilities and a few choice Rogue feats, the Rogue actually allows you to spec other classes hard into skills with Skill Mastery. This is the multiclass I was looking at when I decided to start this thread, because while the attraction of being "X Class, but with magic," is pretty obvious, sacrificing feats to become a more "seasoned" version of your class is not quite as straightforward. Starting at level 8 you can take Skill Mastery up to five times and every time it turns one of your trained skills into an expert skill, one of your existing expert skills into a master skill, and it also gives you a skill feat for one of those two skills. So a pretty typical endgame for most classes is probably to have a bunch of trained skills and three legendary skills. But if you go all in on Skill Mastery you could end up with some trained skills, an expert skill, four master skills, and three legendary skills, plus those five extra skill feats.</p><p></p><p>In any case I kind of think "dipping+" is the most effective way to multiclass. Get in, get the core abilities you want from that class (the shtick and its upgrades, maybe a buff to a weak save depending on the combination), probably forget about trading down for cross-class skill feats. I mean you can do it any way you want, because at the end of the day you will always be some kind of baseline effective. But that is my sense of it. </p><p></p><p></p><p>P.S. The build I was thinking about was a half-elf "Magic-User/Thief" (Spell Substitution Wizard) based extremely loosely on older edition multiclassing, with Natural Ambition/Familiar and Multitalented/Fighter Dedication in ancestry feats, then Rogue Dedication, Conceal Spell, Silent Spell, Skill Mastery, Skill Mastery, Evasiveness, Skill Mastery, Skill Mastery, Skill Mastery, Metamagic Mastery.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kaodi, post: 7831176, member: 1231"] I do not have a definitive answer - I was just hoping to start a specific discussion. I certainly think it looks interesting and allows you to make more diverse characters. Lots of the builds I have worked on used it. Different archetypes need more or less follow up to dip do the appropriate kind of shtick. For ones that "give you something you want" for just the dedication: [LIST] [*]Barbarian gives you Rage. [*]Champion gives you trained in all armour. [*]Fighter gives you trained in all simple and martial weapons. [*]Monk gives you Powerful Fist (more or less just a better unarmed attack). [*]Ranger gives you Hunt Prey. [/LIST] Then you have all the spellcasting dedications. You can do slightly different things depending on your tastes but generally you are going to need to spend four or five feats to get the spellcasting capability you want. You could stick with just the dedication, each one is basically a universal "Extra Cantrips" feat. But depending on your concept are probably going to go for the whole suite plus the appropriate Breadth feat, perhaps there is a niche scenario where you might skip Breadth though. And if you are trying to imitate something like the old Paladin or Ranger spellcasting you might skip Master Spellcasting but still get Breadth. Then you have the Alchemist. With that class you only need three feats to get a pretty significant number of potions per day, with the only difference to the real Alchemist being you do not add your Int modifier to your daily reagents. And of course your free alchemical items are weaker, but there is value in quantity. And then lastly you have the Rogue. While you could grab the Rogue multiclass feats primarily for the abilities and a few choice Rogue feats, the Rogue actually allows you to spec other classes hard into skills with Skill Mastery. This is the multiclass I was looking at when I decided to start this thread, because while the attraction of being "X Class, but with magic," is pretty obvious, sacrificing feats to become a more "seasoned" version of your class is not quite as straightforward. Starting at level 8 you can take Skill Mastery up to five times and every time it turns one of your trained skills into an expert skill, one of your existing expert skills into a master skill, and it also gives you a skill feat for one of those two skills. So a pretty typical endgame for most classes is probably to have a bunch of trained skills and three legendary skills. But if you go all in on Skill Mastery you could end up with some trained skills, an expert skill, four master skills, and three legendary skills, plus those five extra skill feats. In any case I kind of think "dipping+" is the most effective way to multiclass. Get in, get the core abilities you want from that class (the shtick and its upgrades, maybe a buff to a weak save depending on the combination), probably forget about trading down for cross-class skill feats. I mean you can do it any way you want, because at the end of the day you will always be some kind of baseline effective. But that is my sense of it. P.S. The build I was thinking about was a half-elf "Magic-User/Thief" (Spell Substitution Wizard) based extremely loosely on older edition multiclassing, with Natural Ambition/Familiar and Multitalented/Fighter Dedication in ancestry feats, then Rogue Dedication, Conceal Spell, Silent Spell, Skill Mastery, Skill Mastery, Evasiveness, Skill Mastery, Skill Mastery, Skill Mastery, Metamagic Mastery. [/QUOTE]
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