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How do you think each alignment would handle this?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9314277" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Largely agree. I could play within your categorization at your table and not feel like it was weird. I differ slightly on a few takes, and will try to outline them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your outline of LG I felt was correct, but we shouldn't think that LG people view correct order and good as in tension. A LG person not only believes correct order leads to the good, but that the good leads to correct order. Indeed, they are inclined to think that only through correct order can the good be achieved. They may see a CG person as having by chance correct order "written on their hearts" and so act in a way that is correct without consciously consenting to the law, but they would see those actions as correct precisely because they are in accordance to the law - especially the law at its highest governing levels (what is commonly called "the spirit of the law", though a lawful would object to the concept.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here we get to what I think is my biggest quibble with your conception. A LE person as I understand it no more is self-interested than a LG person. They are not acting primarily out of selfishness. Both the LG and LE person would agree with the statement, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." The true LE is perfectly willing to sacrifice their own interests for the benefit of their in group. The true LE ruler would sacrifice themselves for the sake of the ones they rule. Where LG and LE disagree is not over self-interest, but over what causes flourishing. Evil generally sees good as weakness, stupidity, willful blindness, ignorance of reality, hypocrisy, and delusional wishful thinking. In a sense, evil sees those that promote good as being worse deceivers than they are themselves. Think about the Joker's motives in "The Dark Night" where he wants to rip away the false narrative he believes good offers. LE differs from LG in what they think is necessary to flourish. To LE, charity, mercy, and so forth only allow the weak to thrive at the expense of the strong. Such actions they believe work to undermine order and discipline, which for the good of the group must be maintained with a harsh and unyielding hand. </p><p></p><p>If they are really interested in law only to the extent that it rewards them and they happily break laws when it doesn't, that's CE and not LE.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a CG (and to lesser extent NG) perspective. LG doesn't agree. While the LG person might believe that the purpose of a leader is to serve those he leads, they truly do believe that the those who have the right to lead are in some sense better than those they lead and so deserving fully of homage and respect on that account. It's not just the rank that is respected, but the person itself. All the Lawfuls are hierarchical, its just the good lawfuls are trying by it to be benevolent.</p><p></p><p>I'm not going to say whether CG is right or wrong in this, just that we shouldn't let our bias govern how we describe the different viewpoints. You can make a legitimate criticism of LG trying to encourage the good view a hierarchy and strict order, but we have to be open minded enough to recognize LG in turn can make a legitimate criticism of the goodness of the outcome of "each doing what is right in their own eyes".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9314277, member: 4937"] Largely agree. I could play within your categorization at your table and not feel like it was weird. I differ slightly on a few takes, and will try to outline them. Your outline of LG I felt was correct, but we shouldn't think that LG people view correct order and good as in tension. A LG person not only believes correct order leads to the good, but that the good leads to correct order. Indeed, they are inclined to think that only through correct order can the good be achieved. They may see a CG person as having by chance correct order "written on their hearts" and so act in a way that is correct without consciously consenting to the law, but they would see those actions as correct precisely because they are in accordance to the law - especially the law at its highest governing levels (what is commonly called "the spirit of the law", though a lawful would object to the concept.) Here we get to what I think is my biggest quibble with your conception. A LE person as I understand it no more is self-interested than a LG person. They are not acting primarily out of selfishness. Both the LG and LE person would agree with the statement, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." The true LE is perfectly willing to sacrifice their own interests for the benefit of their in group. The true LE ruler would sacrifice themselves for the sake of the ones they rule. Where LG and LE disagree is not over self-interest, but over what causes flourishing. Evil generally sees good as weakness, stupidity, willful blindness, ignorance of reality, hypocrisy, and delusional wishful thinking. In a sense, evil sees those that promote good as being worse deceivers than they are themselves. Think about the Joker's motives in "The Dark Night" where he wants to rip away the false narrative he believes good offers. LE differs from LG in what they think is necessary to flourish. To LE, charity, mercy, and so forth only allow the weak to thrive at the expense of the strong. Such actions they believe work to undermine order and discipline, which for the good of the group must be maintained with a harsh and unyielding hand. If they are really interested in law only to the extent that it rewards them and they happily break laws when it doesn't, that's CE and not LE. That's a CG (and to lesser extent NG) perspective. LG doesn't agree. While the LG person might believe that the purpose of a leader is to serve those he leads, they truly do believe that the those who have the right to lead are in some sense better than those they lead and so deserving fully of homage and respect on that account. It's not just the rank that is respected, but the person itself. All the Lawfuls are hierarchical, its just the good lawfuls are trying by it to be benevolent. I'm not going to say whether CG is right or wrong in this, just that we shouldn't let our bias govern how we describe the different viewpoints. You can make a legitimate criticism of LG trying to encourage the good view a hierarchy and strict order, but we have to be open minded enough to recognize LG in turn can make a legitimate criticism of the goodness of the outcome of "each doing what is right in their own eyes". [/QUOTE]
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