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D&D is a Team Sport. What are the positions?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9177203" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Then this doesn't apply to 4e. Fighters and Wizards were in fact some of the most diverse classes there. Strength was a common point, but there are Fighter builds that ask for Dex, Con, or Wis. I was quite taken with the Wis one, myself. Meanwhile, while all Wizards wanted Int (as is still the case in 5e), Dex, Cha, Con, and Wis all got their own builds, e.g. Charisma was related to using illusions, while Constitution was about defensive magic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That was also a thing in 4e. Going for high Con as a Rogue would be a risk, since you would likely be sacrificing your ability to do your core shtick, but that's not somehow untrue in 5e either.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What does that <em>do</em>, though? Like what does it <em>mean</em> to be a "fighter striker"? A "fighter leader"? What <em>are</em> those things?</p><p></p><p>And if they look exactly the same as (say) a Ranger or a Warlord, why is it such a problem to play the things specifically designed to be the thing you're asking for?</p><p></p><p>Or, alternatively, if you build up to that over time with alternate features, items, and feats, how does that not achieve what you ask for?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay...well...4e let you multiclass. And it didn't tell you the game is played in one expected way. Like it literally didn't do that. It told people what was an <em>effective</em> thing to do, and let them make their own decisions.</p><p></p><p>A Fighter that deals a ridiculous amount of damage is perfectly doable. One that can do the full Leader suite without any MC or other such stuff would be pretty hard, but that's just as true in 5e (arguably moreso; the only actual 5e "support" subclass for Fighters <em>sucks</em>.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, it was realized in a particular edition, but it's rather hard to explain that to folks who hear that a class has a role and think "oh, so you're NEVER EVER allowed to do ANYTHING else?" rather than what it actually means, which is, "You start out equipped to do this thing; decide what you'd like to do from there, and build toward it if you want."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9177203, member: 6790260"] Then this doesn't apply to 4e. Fighters and Wizards were in fact some of the most diverse classes there. Strength was a common point, but there are Fighter builds that ask for Dex, Con, or Wis. I was quite taken with the Wis one, myself. Meanwhile, while all Wizards wanted Int (as is still the case in 5e), Dex, Cha, Con, and Wis all got their own builds, e.g. Charisma was related to using illusions, while Constitution was about defensive magic. That was also a thing in 4e. Going for high Con as a Rogue would be a risk, since you would likely be sacrificing your ability to do your core shtick, but that's not somehow untrue in 5e either. What does that [I]do[/I], though? Like what does it [I]mean[/I] to be a "fighter striker"? A "fighter leader"? What [I]are[/I] those things? And if they look exactly the same as (say) a Ranger or a Warlord, why is it such a problem to play the things specifically designed to be the thing you're asking for? Or, alternatively, if you build up to that over time with alternate features, items, and feats, how does that not achieve what you ask for? Okay...well...4e let you multiclass. And it didn't tell you the game is played in one expected way. Like it literally didn't do that. It told people what was an [I]effective[/I] thing to do, and let them make their own decisions. A Fighter that deals a ridiculous amount of damage is perfectly doable. One that can do the full Leader suite without any MC or other such stuff would be pretty hard, but that's just as true in 5e (arguably moreso; the only actual 5e "support" subclass for Fighters [I]sucks[/I].) I mean, it was realized in a particular edition, but it's rather hard to explain that to folks who hear that a class has a role and think "oh, so you're NEVER EVER allowed to do ANYTHING else?" rather than what it actually means, which is, "You start out equipped to do this thing; decide what you'd like to do from there, and build toward it if you want." [/QUOTE]
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