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Are some Fighting Styles worthless, and how could they be fixed?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 9241114" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>I was looking at some third party altered fighting styles, and it got me thinking more about something that's been in the back of my mind for years.</p><p></p><p>Some fighting styles are utter crap.</p><p></p><p>Possible hyperbole aside, in my experience, some fighting styles are worth taking, and I think the others really need something to make them worthwhile alternatives.</p><p></p><p>The main worthwhile fighting styles are <strong>Archery</strong>, <strong>Dueling</strong>, <strong>Great Weapon Fighting</strong> (in theory), and <strong>Two-Weapon Fighting</strong>. <strong>Defense</strong> works fine as (most) every Champion's second fighting style. From the optional fighting styles introduced later, <strong>Thrown Weapon Fighting</strong> also does its job, and <strong>Unarmed Fighting</strong> works about as well as it can if you are going for that niche concept.</p><p></p><p>The others aren't worth taking over those (and neither is swapping your fighting style for a cantrip for ranger and paladin). The reason is that the fighting styles listed do something you don't want to give up. They directly (or indirectly but reliably in the case of Archery) increase your at-will, round after round damage output. That additional damage (along with your d10 HD) helps define the primary warrior classes. (Barbarians and monks have their own thing going on.) You get good hit points, extra damage with your martial weapons, and Extra Attack. Giving up that reliable, round after round extra damage is a sacrifice that needs a commensurate reward.</p><p></p><p>And those other fighting styles, just <em>aren't.</em> </p><p></p><p><strong>Protection:</strong> Here's the only waste of space in the core styles. I wonder if this could be fixed by giving you the option to use it for yourself? That means imposing Disadvantage on one attack against you most rounds. How would that stack up against an additional +2 (+4 with Extra Attack, more for high level fighters) damage from Dueling for instance?</p><p></p><p><strong>Blind Fighting:</strong> Cool concept! It will make you feel great all 4 rounds of your campaign that it matters. The rest of the time you aren't doing an extra 2 to 8 damage per round.</p><p></p><p><strong>Interception:</strong> This might be a little better than Protection, and you can do it without a shield. But I still don't think it's worth giving up your DPR.</p><p></p><p><strong>Superior Technique:</strong> Again, great concept. This one is, conceptually, idea for a future Battle Master to lean into their identity right away. But again, an extra 3.5 damage plus a cool and useful rider once per short rest isn't making up for the lost DPR unless you get a short rest after every 3 round fight. And if you actually do become a Battle Master, even if your DM lets you transmute the die you get from this into the size of your normal dice, you'll probably wish you had that extra DPR over one more maneuver and one more Superiority Die. This one might be salvageable if it also gave you a flat +1 damage, though it's have to only do that with some other category of weapons (like Great Weapons, or Dueling weapons, or Archery weapons, etc) to not be too good.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Great Weapon Fighting (in actuality):</em></strong> This one gets a dishonorable mention. If I recall my calculations, it gives you an average +1.67 damage per attack with a greatsword or maul, or about half that with a d12 weapon--which means you are locked into a greatsword or maul. If you don't mind be locked into two specific weapon choices for it to be worth it, then it's okay, and if you're a fighter getting lots of those 2d6 attacks it does its job for you.</p><p></p><p>So, any suggestions for making those other styles actually feel worth the DPR trade off for classes for whom DPR is a major part of their role and identity?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 9241114, member: 6677017"] I was looking at some third party altered fighting styles, and it got me thinking more about something that's been in the back of my mind for years. Some fighting styles are utter crap. Possible hyperbole aside, in my experience, some fighting styles are worth taking, and I think the others really need something to make them worthwhile alternatives. The main worthwhile fighting styles are [B]Archery[/B], [B]Dueling[/B], [B]Great Weapon Fighting[/B] (in theory), and [B]Two-Weapon Fighting[/B]. [B]Defense[/B] works fine as (most) every Champion's second fighting style. From the optional fighting styles introduced later, [B]Thrown Weapon Fighting[/B] also does its job, and [B]Unarmed Fighting[/B] works about as well as it can if you are going for that niche concept. The others aren't worth taking over those (and neither is swapping your fighting style for a cantrip for ranger and paladin). The reason is that the fighting styles listed do something you don't want to give up. They directly (or indirectly but reliably in the case of Archery) increase your at-will, round after round damage output. That additional damage (along with your d10 HD) helps define the primary warrior classes. (Barbarians and monks have their own thing going on.) You get good hit points, extra damage with your martial weapons, and Extra Attack. Giving up that reliable, round after round extra damage is a sacrifice that needs a commensurate reward. And those other fighting styles, just [I]aren't.[/I] [B]Protection:[/B] Here's the only waste of space in the core styles. I wonder if this could be fixed by giving you the option to use it for yourself? That means imposing Disadvantage on one attack against you most rounds. How would that stack up against an additional +2 (+4 with Extra Attack, more for high level fighters) damage from Dueling for instance? [B]Blind Fighting:[/B] Cool concept! It will make you feel great all 4 rounds of your campaign that it matters. The rest of the time you aren't doing an extra 2 to 8 damage per round. [B]Interception:[/B] This might be a little better than Protection, and you can do it without a shield. But I still don't think it's worth giving up your DPR. [B]Superior Technique:[/B] Again, great concept. This one is, conceptually, idea for a future Battle Master to lean into their identity right away. But again, an extra 3.5 damage plus a cool and useful rider once per short rest isn't making up for the lost DPR unless you get a short rest after every 3 round fight. And if you actually do become a Battle Master, even if your DM lets you transmute the die you get from this into the size of your normal dice, you'll probably wish you had that extra DPR over one more maneuver and one more Superiority Die. This one might be salvageable if it also gave you a flat +1 damage, though it's have to only do that with some other category of weapons (like Great Weapons, or Dueling weapons, or Archery weapons, etc) to not be too good. [B][I]Great Weapon Fighting (in actuality):[/I][/B] This one gets a dishonorable mention. If I recall my calculations, it gives you an average +1.67 damage per attack with a greatsword or maul, or about half that with a d12 weapon--which means you are locked into a greatsword or maul. If you don't mind be locked into two specific weapon choices for it to be worth it, then it's okay, and if you're a fighter getting lots of those 2d6 attacks it does its job for you. So, any suggestions for making those other styles actually feel worth the DPR trade off for classes for whom DPR is a major part of their role and identity? [/QUOTE]
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