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Al-Qadim, Campaign Guide: Zakhara, and Cultural Sensitivity
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8665068" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>You have repeatedly insulted me with this phrase, and I'm rather sick of it. If you're going to discuss this with me, actually go off what I <em>say</em>, rather than this. You are, in fact, making this <em>extremely personal</em>. If you have a problem with concepts like "accuracy is a tool," <em>then attack those concepts</em>, rather than casting aspersions on my character.</p><p></p><p>I have done as I ask of you with <em>your</em> positions. I have, consistently, held that the issue here is your advocacy of a standard I consider both facile and impossible, which I have given real-world examples for multiple times over. You have ignored every single effort I have made to discuss that concept--the idea of only using "objective" history, "objective" culture--and instead insulted me, talking about how I must love cutting up others' cultures, how I must be dead-set on eviscerating the lived cultural experiences of outside groups. Please don't do that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I can tell you, right now, that it has been practiced at least since the mid-300s AD. Because I have actually done <em>some</em> research. Not much, mind; there's much I don't know, and I would very much want academic experts in the field (preferably ones with personal experience!) to advise me, were I to be undertaking anything that might reference it.</p><p></p><p>There are many, many, <em>many</em> more questions than that. Enormously more. You are outright trivializing an extremely complex and, <em>as I have said several times</em>, CONTROVERSIAL subject <em>even in India</em>. It is absolutely NOT the case that "the only real question" is whether <em>sati</em> would in fact be forced on Aouda in India under the British Raj (the colonial government nominally under Queen Victoria in her role as Empress of India.) Several other questions include: </p><p>Would the British authorities have permitted it, even if it were expected of her? If not, could she have appealed to them instead of Fogg?</p><p>Would it actually include the burning of her <em>relatives</em>, something not actually associated with the <em>sati</em> practice but referenced in the book?</p><p>Does it actually make for a more <em>interesting</em> story to center her life around this practice, which was controversial <em>even in pre-Raj India?</em></p><p>Does the emphasis on this cultural practice actually give an effective and respectful communication of the culture of India, or is it a sensationalization of relatively minor details until they obscure rather than edify?</p><p></p><p>Or, if you wish to summarize it with a single question: <em>Is it actually WISE to include this cultural practice affecting this character in this story?</em></p><p></p><p>Because that's my core assertion here. That some forms of so-called "accuracy," even if they really did reflect some inarguable and objective component of history or culture, are NOT wise to include. Now, that determination must be made with <em>exceeding</em> care. We are always, and necessarily, picking out only some things to talk about and, as a consequence, always and necessarily picking out some things to ignore. Some of the time, that "picking out" is chosen for us (as with my Norse example above; we simply <em>do not have</em> unbiased sources, they literally do not exist, the Norse, for whatever reason, simply <em>didn't choose to write down their traditions</em>), and we must make do with what we have. In many other cases, however, that "picking out" is purely our own choice. What do we include, and what do we ignore? What do we emphasize, and what do we downplay? What do we describe in unvarnished (and perhaps uncompromising) truth, and what do we invent, whether because it suits us (as with adding magic to a setting inspired by our world, or inserting gender equality when and where there demonstrably wasn't any) or because it suits the tale we intend to tell (e.g. trimming down the cast of characters for a film adaptation because a large cast is much less manageable in film than it is in a book)?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8665068, member: 6790260"] You have repeatedly insulted me with this phrase, and I'm rather sick of it. If you're going to discuss this with me, actually go off what I [I]say[/I], rather than this. You are, in fact, making this [I]extremely personal[/I]. If you have a problem with concepts like "accuracy is a tool," [I]then attack those concepts[/I], rather than casting aspersions on my character. I have done as I ask of you with [I]your[/I] positions. I have, consistently, held that the issue here is your advocacy of a standard I consider both facile and impossible, which I have given real-world examples for multiple times over. You have ignored every single effort I have made to discuss that concept--the idea of only using "objective" history, "objective" culture--and instead insulted me, talking about how I must love cutting up others' cultures, how I must be dead-set on eviscerating the lived cultural experiences of outside groups. Please don't do that. I can tell you, right now, that it has been practiced at least since the mid-300s AD. Because I have actually done [I]some[/I] research. Not much, mind; there's much I don't know, and I would very much want academic experts in the field (preferably ones with personal experience!) to advise me, were I to be undertaking anything that might reference it. There are many, many, [I]many[/I] more questions than that. Enormously more. You are outright trivializing an extremely complex and, [I]as I have said several times[/I], CONTROVERSIAL subject [I]even in India[/I]. It is absolutely NOT the case that "the only real question" is whether [I]sati[/I] would in fact be forced on Aouda in India under the British Raj (the colonial government nominally under Queen Victoria in her role as Empress of India.) Several other questions include: Would the British authorities have permitted it, even if it were expected of her? If not, could she have appealed to them instead of Fogg? Would it actually include the burning of her [I]relatives[/I], something not actually associated with the [I]sati[/I] practice but referenced in the book? Does it actually make for a more [I]interesting[/I] story to center her life around this practice, which was controversial [I]even in pre-Raj India?[/I] Does the emphasis on this cultural practice actually give an effective and respectful communication of the culture of India, or is it a sensationalization of relatively minor details until they obscure rather than edify? Or, if you wish to summarize it with a single question: [I]Is it actually WISE to include this cultural practice affecting this character in this story?[/I] Because that's my core assertion here. That some forms of so-called "accuracy," even if they really did reflect some inarguable and objective component of history or culture, are NOT wise to include. Now, that determination must be made with [I]exceeding[/I] care. We are always, and necessarily, picking out only some things to talk about and, as a consequence, always and necessarily picking out some things to ignore. Some of the time, that "picking out" is chosen for us (as with my Norse example above; we simply [I]do not have[/I] unbiased sources, they literally do not exist, the Norse, for whatever reason, simply [I]didn't choose to write down their traditions[/I]), and we must make do with what we have. In many other cases, however, that "picking out" is purely our own choice. What do we include, and what do we ignore? What do we emphasize, and what do we downplay? What do we describe in unvarnished (and perhaps uncompromising) truth, and what do we invent, whether because it suits us (as with adding magic to a setting inspired by our world, or inserting gender equality when and where there demonstrably wasn't any) or because it suits the tale we intend to tell (e.g. trimming down the cast of characters for a film adaptation because a large cast is much less manageable in film than it is in a book)? [/QUOTE]
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