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4e far more tactical than 5e? or just a little
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8501198" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>4e is <em>spectacularly</em> more tactical than 5e and your actual positioning matters in relation to everyone else. Off the top of my head major elements are:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Roughly half of all characters having forced movement abilities. If there's a pit, a scree, something on fire, etc. someone is going to get thrown off, on, over, or into it. This makes the battlefield matter and your position relative to it matter a lot (and deals with "Green Screen" combats that might be taking place anywhere no matter what the official setting).<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This is particularly important because being pushed into something does damage on top of rather than instead of your normal attack so it's not all or nothing the way standard push/bull rush abilities are.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A lot of characters have small AoE effects, for example fighters getting a sweeping blow that hits all the enemies next to them or wizards getting a cantrip that's a Scorching Burst. This again makes where you stand matter much more - and combines with the forced movement for extra levels of teamwork and tactics as they work with each other.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Everyone getting limited use abilities so you don't just spam the same attack (that sweeping blow mentioned above is 1/short rest for a fighter (and short rests are 5 minutes)).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Triggered abilities. The Sentinel feat in 5e is basically the fighter class abilities in 4e, and it's not unknown for rogues with bonuses against opportunity attacks to simply provoke foes to make opportunity attacks on them so the fighter gets a free swing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Modifiers mostly stacking (same named modifiers do not stack). In 5e it's basically Advantage Or Nothing. In 4e you might have combat advantage from one ally and a power bonus from another while your foe has a penalty to their defence before launching your big attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attacker rolls and you get Fort/Ref/Will defences instead of saving throws. This doesn't sound like much but allows for shenanigans that allow you to switch target defence (normally from AC to Ref)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Flanking being a thing - opposite sides of your foe gives you Combat Advantage (which doesn't stack with other sources of Combat Advantage but can stack with other bonuses).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">On the DM side<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Easy to adjudicate improvised actions</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Easy to make monsters even on the fly (the 4e <a href="http://blogofholding.com/?p=512" target="_blank">MM3 on a Business Card</a> gives all the actual rules you need)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Well designed monsters (especially in Monster Vault and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale) that never require looking up e.g. a spell in another book as they only use the standard rules.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monster combat roles encourage a diversity of monsters (there's no one "standard orc" in either the Monster Manual or Monster Vault), some focusing on melee, some range, some skirmishing and making it worth pinning down the brutes and soldiers to attack the archers in melee.</li> </ul></li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8501198, member: 87792"] 4e is [I]spectacularly[/I] more tactical than 5e and your actual positioning matters in relation to everyone else. Off the top of my head major elements are: [LIST] [*]Roughly half of all characters having forced movement abilities. If there's a pit, a scree, something on fire, etc. someone is going to get thrown off, on, over, or into it. This makes the battlefield matter and your position relative to it matter a lot (and deals with "Green Screen" combats that might be taking place anywhere no matter what the official setting). [LIST] [*]This is particularly important because being pushed into something does damage on top of rather than instead of your normal attack so it's not all or nothing the way standard push/bull rush abilities are. [/LIST] [*]A lot of characters have small AoE effects, for example fighters getting a sweeping blow that hits all the enemies next to them or wizards getting a cantrip that's a Scorching Burst. This again makes where you stand matter much more - and combines with the forced movement for extra levels of teamwork and tactics as they work with each other. [*]Everyone getting limited use abilities so you don't just spam the same attack (that sweeping blow mentioned above is 1/short rest for a fighter (and short rests are 5 minutes)). [*]Triggered abilities. The Sentinel feat in 5e is basically the fighter class abilities in 4e, and it's not unknown for rogues with bonuses against opportunity attacks to simply provoke foes to make opportunity attacks on them so the fighter gets a free swing. [*]Modifiers mostly stacking (same named modifiers do not stack). In 5e it's basically Advantage Or Nothing. In 4e you might have combat advantage from one ally and a power bonus from another while your foe has a penalty to their defence before launching your big attack. [*]Attacker rolls and you get Fort/Ref/Will defences instead of saving throws. This doesn't sound like much but allows for shenanigans that allow you to switch target defence (normally from AC to Ref) [*]Flanking being a thing - opposite sides of your foe gives you Combat Advantage (which doesn't stack with other sources of Combat Advantage but can stack with other bonuses). [*]On the DM side [LIST] [*]Easy to adjudicate improvised actions [*]Easy to make monsters even on the fly (the 4e [URL='http://blogofholding.com/?p=512']MM3 on a Business Card[/URL] gives all the actual rules you need) [*]Well designed monsters (especially in Monster Vault and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale) that never require looking up e.g. a spell in another book as they only use the standard rules. [*]Monster combat roles encourage a diversity of monsters (there's no one "standard orc" in either the Monster Manual or Monster Vault), some focusing on melee, some range, some skirmishing and making it worth pinning down the brutes and soldiers to attack the archers in melee. [/LIST] [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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