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3e SRDs, Paizo, Planescape, Cleric class, OSR, curious thoughts
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 8919800" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>So, the 5.1 SRD is now in the CC-BY 4.0, open license.</p><p></p><p>All of the 5e SRD is now unequivocally Open Content belonging to the gaming communities in the wild, beyond the reach of any corporation. It is an auspicious time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, why not the 3e SRDs? (3.0, 3.5, and Modern d20) What is the angle?</p><p></p><p>Also, why not a new 4e SRD to access Warlord, Swordmage, and other popular aspects of 4e?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Part of "keeping control" of the 3e SRDs might be to deter Paizo Pathfinder, and encourage the Open Gaming creators to switch to the 5e mechanics as much as possible. This indirectly perpetuates Hasbro-WotC products − probably including future 2024 edition products.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Is there more to it? There is much more content in the 3e SRDs than in the 5e SRD. What is missing from the 5e SRD?</p><p></p><p>Of the top of my head, Psionics is missing from the 5e, at least any developed implementation of Psionics.</p><p></p><p>3e has much more info about the "Outer Planes" or as prefer the characterization of them, the "Astral Dominions". Hasbro-WotC announced they are coming out with a new Planescape setting. Much of the Planescape setting is distinctive enough to be copyrightable. Gary Gygax invented the "Wheel" (or rather the Rectangle in his day), as a way to visualize the Alignment compass, and its diverse factions. The Alignments remain a recognizable feature of the D&D brand within popculture memes, and the Wheel remains popular. Moreover, 3e, maybe especially 4e, and now 5e, have increasingly emphasized fictional deities (like Pelor and Lolth) instead of reallife deities (like Zeus and Isis). Granted, the 5e SRD mentions reallife religions, but it is more a bait-and-switch. Players might choose their Cleric to worship a reallife polytheistic god, but the 5e settings and other products dont support them. Even the Greekesque Theros avoids reallife Greek gods, and instead supports the copyrightable and brandable Magic the Gathering cosmology. The 3e SRDs themselves protect fictional deities as Product Identity. They probably will feature in any future Planescape product.</p><p></p><p>Possibly, the future Planescape setting is a fullon, widescale push, for Astral Dominions and their denizens. Possibly, these emphases will feature in 6e too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Heh, for me personally, all of this is a bit dismaying. Because I hate the way D&D handles "religions" generally. I hate the way, D&D misrepresents the religions of reallife cultures. (And I dont want future fictional versions of misrepresented Norse nature beings, either!) Mostly, I hate the way the Cleric class forces a specific setting with a specific cosmology and a specific way of doing religion. I dont want any of it.</p><p></p><p>I appreciate how the Theros setting includes the "Iconoclast" options. (That is also a nod to reallife ancient Greece, because many Greeks disliked, disrespected, and even disbelieved their deities.) I also appreciate the Xanathars setting sidebar that emphasizes a "cosmic power", including an abstract fundamental principle of a worldview. From the perspective of reallife religions, the "cosmic power" is the best way to be more inclusive of more reallife cultures. Thus the "cosmic power" approach can welcome more players from more reallife cultures, and help the feel more comfortable, and relate better to the Cleric class.</p><p></p><p>Relatedly, the Cleric class is a core class, and must be as setting neutral as possible, for the many worldbuilder DMs who play D&D. The class must be welcoming to different kinds of Cleric concepts for different kinds of sacred assumptions, for so many important reasons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That said. The fictional D&D gods are "brandable" and marketable. They are popular enough among many D&D players. An "inclusive" Cleric class includes these players too. In general, the Cleric class can give specific examples from one or more official D&D settings, but cannot give specific requirements to participate in these settings. The Cleric class needs to be as setting neutral as possible, and explicitly mention other kinds of sacred worldviews besides the D&D-style polytheism. Indeed, the official settings themselves do well to be more inclusive of other reallife approaches to the sacred.</p><p></p><p>It will be tempting to Hasbro-WotC for 6e to try railroad the Cleric class into the monetizable 6e Planescape. But avoid the reallife tragedy of coercing any kind of religion in any kind of way. The Cleric class can leave a door open to the official Planescape setting. But dont force players thru that door.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Any, I suspect Hasbro-WotC plans to go big with Planescape. Even tho they clearly own the Product Identity of the fictional D&D deities, I suspect they wanted to control every aspect of the Planescape setting and its Astral Wheel of Dominions. Possibly, this plan is part of why Hasbro-WotC refuses to release the 3e SRDs to the CC. At least in their deluded minds, Hasbro-WotC still think they can de-authorize access to 3e SRD content.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By the way, to the old schoolers of the OSR, who still play variations of 1e and 2e (and Basic and Original). Do these communities really need the 3e SRDs. Much of the OSR content seems to have evolved beyond 1e and 2e, such as better versions of rules, while still keeping some of the principles of early D&D. If needing an SRD at all, is it possible to use the 5e SRD to anchor the rights of D&D usage? Is there something in the 3e SRDs that OSR must have and genuinely relies on?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Finally, Hasbro-WotC seems to intentionally withhold the 3e SRDs. They even insist as if they have the power to deauthorize access to the 3e SRDs. What is in these 3e SRDs that Hasbro-WotC hoards, like a dragon atop a treasure. Speculate about the various motives that might be in play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 8919800, member: 58172"] So, the 5.1 SRD is now in the CC-BY 4.0, open license. All of the 5e SRD is now unequivocally Open Content belonging to the gaming communities in the wild, beyond the reach of any corporation. It is an auspicious time. So, why not the 3e SRDs? (3.0, 3.5, and Modern d20) What is the angle? Also, why not a new 4e SRD to access Warlord, Swordmage, and other popular aspects of 4e? Part of "keeping control" of the 3e SRDs might be to deter Paizo Pathfinder, and encourage the Open Gaming creators to switch to the 5e mechanics as much as possible. This indirectly perpetuates Hasbro-WotC products − probably including future 2024 edition products. Is there more to it? There is much more content in the 3e SRDs than in the 5e SRD. What is missing from the 5e SRD? Of the top of my head, Psionics is missing from the 5e, at least any developed implementation of Psionics. 3e has much more info about the "Outer Planes" or as prefer the characterization of them, the "Astral Dominions". Hasbro-WotC announced they are coming out with a new Planescape setting. Much of the Planescape setting is distinctive enough to be copyrightable. Gary Gygax invented the "Wheel" (or rather the Rectangle in his day), as a way to visualize the Alignment compass, and its diverse factions. The Alignments remain a recognizable feature of the D&D brand within popculture memes, and the Wheel remains popular. Moreover, 3e, maybe especially 4e, and now 5e, have increasingly emphasized fictional deities (like Pelor and Lolth) instead of reallife deities (like Zeus and Isis). Granted, the 5e SRD mentions reallife religions, but it is more a bait-and-switch. Players might choose their Cleric to worship a reallife polytheistic god, but the 5e settings and other products dont support them. Even the Greekesque Theros avoids reallife Greek gods, and instead supports the copyrightable and brandable Magic the Gathering cosmology. The 3e SRDs themselves protect fictional deities as Product Identity. They probably will feature in any future Planescape product. Possibly, the future Planescape setting is a fullon, widescale push, for Astral Dominions and their denizens. Possibly, these emphases will feature in 6e too. Heh, for me personally, all of this is a bit dismaying. Because I hate the way D&D handles "religions" generally. I hate the way, D&D misrepresents the religions of reallife cultures. (And I dont want future fictional versions of misrepresented Norse nature beings, either!) Mostly, I hate the way the Cleric class forces a specific setting with a specific cosmology and a specific way of doing religion. I dont want any of it. I appreciate how the Theros setting includes the "Iconoclast" options. (That is also a nod to reallife ancient Greece, because many Greeks disliked, disrespected, and even disbelieved their deities.) I also appreciate the Xanathars setting sidebar that emphasizes a "cosmic power", including an abstract fundamental principle of a worldview. From the perspective of reallife religions, the "cosmic power" is the best way to be more inclusive of more reallife cultures. Thus the "cosmic power" approach can welcome more players from more reallife cultures, and help the feel more comfortable, and relate better to the Cleric class. Relatedly, the Cleric class is a core class, and must be as setting neutral as possible, for the many worldbuilder DMs who play D&D. The class must be welcoming to different kinds of Cleric concepts for different kinds of sacred assumptions, for so many important reasons. That said. The fictional D&D gods are "brandable" and marketable. They are popular enough among many D&D players. An "inclusive" Cleric class includes these players too. In general, the Cleric class can give specific examples from one or more official D&D settings, but cannot give specific requirements to participate in these settings. The Cleric class needs to be as setting neutral as possible, and explicitly mention other kinds of sacred worldviews besides the D&D-style polytheism. Indeed, the official settings themselves do well to be more inclusive of other reallife approaches to the sacred. It will be tempting to Hasbro-WotC for 6e to try railroad the Cleric class into the monetizable 6e Planescape. But avoid the reallife tragedy of coercing any kind of religion in any kind of way. The Cleric class can leave a door open to the official Planescape setting. But dont force players thru that door. Any, I suspect Hasbro-WotC plans to go big with Planescape. Even tho they clearly own the Product Identity of the fictional D&D deities, I suspect they wanted to control every aspect of the Planescape setting and its Astral Wheel of Dominions. Possibly, this plan is part of why Hasbro-WotC refuses to release the 3e SRDs to the CC. At least in their deluded minds, Hasbro-WotC still think they can de-authorize access to 3e SRD content. By the way, to the old schoolers of the OSR, who still play variations of 1e and 2e (and Basic and Original). Do these communities really need the 3e SRDs. Much of the OSR content seems to have evolved beyond 1e and 2e, such as better versions of rules, while still keeping some of the principles of early D&D. If needing an SRD at all, is it possible to use the 5e SRD to anchor the rights of D&D usage? Is there something in the 3e SRDs that OSR must have and genuinely relies on? Finally, Hasbro-WotC seems to intentionally withhold the 3e SRDs. They even insist as if they have the power to deauthorize access to the 3e SRDs. What is in these 3e SRDs that Hasbro-WotC hoards, like a dragon atop a treasure. Speculate about the various motives that might be in play. [/QUOTE]
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