Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
2e, the most lethal edition?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7638859" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Not a huge difference, it was pretty hard to be a non-fighter specialist, like a Paladin or Ranger, because they were just hard to get into, anyway. Specialization, at all, OTOH, was a huge deal, it seriously powered the fighter up. I want to highlight this because it's still, by far, the strongest part of your case. All this hair-splitting and RaW invoking to paint a picture of 1e PCs maybe having a little something going on, and 2e PCs being ganked by technicalities... it really doesn't seem to add up to much, not compared to how much PCs varied w/in each edition, thanks to random generation and variants (I know, which you're not considering).</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I know you're sticking to default rules, but it's almost seems like some 2e editor cherry picked 'em for you. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Like, maybe they had a design or just a layout paradigm of presenting the least juicy stuff as default...</p><p></p><p>There was some whacktastic crazybroken stuff in later complete books, the final version of specialty clerics was nuts, and options books opened up all sorts of loopholes. UA was kinda awful that way, but can't compare to the sheer ocean of bloat that 2e drowned in.</p><p></p><p>If you're going all RAW!, excluding even wildly common optional rules in the main books, you might as well go core-only, too. It'll simplify the analysis, if nothing else.</p><p></p><p>PH PCs vs MC Monsters.</p><p></p><p>"Etc.." was, like the Thief Accrobat and new spells & magic items that mostly made it into 2e, anyway. The Barbarian's rolling method choked more than occasionally, IMX - said X was limited, though, by players refusing to use it, maybe it just got a bad rap among /my/ players. The Cavalier made the fighter sad, until it got itself killed, but really, that's just the fighter. The fighter was happier with specialization in 2e, but 2e monsters were better able to stand up to it. ::shrug::</p><p></p><p></p><p>I know, technically, a terribly young dragon can be 'low level,' but more than one example wouldn't hurt...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7638859, member: 996"] Not a huge difference, it was pretty hard to be a non-fighter specialist, like a Paladin or Ranger, because they were just hard to get into, anyway. Specialization, at all, OTOH, was a huge deal, it seriously powered the fighter up. I want to highlight this because it's still, by far, the strongest part of your case. All this hair-splitting and RaW invoking to paint a picture of 1e PCs maybe having a little something going on, and 2e PCs being ganked by technicalities... it really doesn't seem to add up to much, not compared to how much PCs varied w/in each edition, thanks to random generation and variants (I know, which you're not considering). Yeah, I know you're sticking to default rules, but it's almost seems like some 2e editor cherry picked 'em for you. ;) Like, maybe they had a design or just a layout paradigm of presenting the least juicy stuff as default... There was some whacktastic crazybroken stuff in later complete books, the final version of specialty clerics was nuts, and options books opened up all sorts of loopholes. UA was kinda awful that way, but can't compare to the sheer ocean of bloat that 2e drowned in. If you're going all RAW!, excluding even wildly common optional rules in the main books, you might as well go core-only, too. It'll simplify the analysis, if nothing else. PH PCs vs MC Monsters. "Etc.." was, like the Thief Accrobat and new spells & magic items that mostly made it into 2e, anyway. The Barbarian's rolling method choked more than occasionally, IMX - said X was limited, though, by players refusing to use it, maybe it just got a bad rap among /my/ players. The Cavalier made the fighter sad, until it got itself killed, but really, that's just the fighter. The fighter was happier with specialization in 2e, but 2e monsters were better able to stand up to it. ::shrug:: I know, technically, a terribly young dragon can be 'low level,' but more than one example wouldn't hurt... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
2e, the most lethal edition?
Top