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2024 Astral Plane
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 9039794" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>Indeed, the Outer Planes and the Outlands link to each other via portals. So characters can hop back and forth among all seventeen without ever entering the Astral Sea.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The map of the cosmology in the Players Handbook is the default model for 5e.</p><p></p><p>Even tho it is a model, WotC still needs to clarify practical questions.</p><p></p><p>Can player characters in a spelljammer ship dock at an island to embark into an Upper Plane such as Arborea, or into the Outlands to view and somehow get to Sigil?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>According to the 5e Players Handbook, the default model includes the Outer Planes inside the Astral Plane. They are even specifically inside the Astral Sea.</p><p></p><p>The wildspace would be the part of the Astral Plane that overlays the Material Plane.</p><p></p><p>By inference, the Astral Plane overlays everything that exists in the multiverse, from the outermost Astral edge to the innermost Material center. The Astral Plane is everywhere.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My view is similar.</p><p></p><p>The Material Plane includes distant stars that are impossibly far away, like reallife.</p><p></p><p>In D&D, those distant stars have their own worlds, including planets like Athas, Eberron, Oerth, and Toril. Each planet is a separate campaign setting: Dark Sun, Eberron, Greyhawk, and Forgotten Realms respectively. It is unfeasible to try reach these stars by mundane means. The typical way to reach them is to enter the wildspace of ones own star system, then sail from there across the Astral Sea at the speed of thought to the wildspace of that distant star system. Those stars are all visible within the Astral Sea via their respective wildspaces. One dematerializes from one star system and rematerializes in an other star system, effectively teleporting.</p><p></p><p>Creatures in a wildspace can exist both the Astral Plane and the Material Plane simultaneously. These creatures age because of the planar properties of the Material Plane.</p><p></p><p>(There are no wildspaces in the vacuum of remote outer space, perhaps because there is little or nothing to overlap. Maybe it has something to do with gravity. In any case, altho the Astral Plane overlaps the empty space of the Material Plane, the Material Plane doesnt exert influence on the Astral Plane there, hence no wildspace.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have the Elemental Chaos exist at the "quantum" level of atoms. That makes sense. Because it a "place" where Force, elemental energy (Fire, Cold, Lighting, Thunder), and unstable matter (Acid) are all in flux.</p><p></p><p>When I look at the 5e map, I see the main features as:</p><p></p><p>• Positive Energy and Negative Emptiness preexist the multiverse.</p><p></p><p>• Where Positive and Negative interact the Astral Plane of thoughts results.</p><p></p><p>• The Astral Plane causes and overlaps the Ethereal Plane.</p><p></p><p>• The Ethereal Plane causes and overlaps the Material Plane.</p><p></p><p>• The Astral Plane overlaps both the Ethereal and the Material.</p><p></p><p>• The Elemental Chaos is where Ethereal force becomes matter.</p><p></p><p>• This Elemental matter is the building blocks for the Material Plane.</p><p></p><p>Note, one can reach the Four Elemental Planes from the Ethereal Plane, because its Ethereal force is part of the Elemental Chaos and each Element is actually made out of force. The Elements are states of matter: earthy solid, watery liquid, airy gas, and fiery plasma. All matter derives from the fundamental forces. In other words, the Four Elements are made out the Fifth Element, ether, which is Ethereal force. Ether as an element is also called Quintessence.</p><p></p><p>The Elemental Chaos is like the Big Bang. It is a creation event. But it is ongoing, in a continual flux, where resulting matter can revert back into force and energy. That is true at the subatomic quantum level, is helpful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In the cosmology map, there is a ring from which spokes radiate to each Outer Plane. Perhaps this ring itself, or perhaps what is within it, is somehow the Outlands.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I kinda want to put the Far Realm entering thru a lower level of Hades − with the Gray Waste including Aberration imagery.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, "Hades" and everything belonging to any "underworld" of the dead become moreorless the same thing as Shadowfell in the context of 5e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because there are omissions in the official descriptions of how these planes relate to each other, DMs are somewhat forced to fill in the gaps, and reconcile incongruencies.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is the great point that Forgotten Realms, namely the default setting for 5e core, has a tradition of changing cosmologies. Talk about "Realms-shaking events"!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Probably true, mostly.</p><p></p><p>But there are still practical questions that require clarification.</p><p></p><p>Can players in the Planescape setting, be in an Outer Plane like Arborea and sail out from a dock there into the Astral Sea?</p><p></p><p>In the Outlands, what is beyond the edge of the stable hub of the Spire? Is it the Astral Sea, the Elemental Chaos, more Outlands, or something else?</p><p></p><p>How does one get to a relevant dominion like Hestavar from the Outlands, or from Elysium? Does one get there by a spelljammer ship? Can one get there by a spelljammer?</p><p></p><p>I find it difficult to imagine a Planescape setting that avoids clarifying these likely adventure scenarios.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 9039794, member: 58172"] Indeed, the Outer Planes and the Outlands link to each other via portals. So characters can hop back and forth among all seventeen without ever entering the Astral Sea. The map of the cosmology in the Players Handbook is the default model for 5e. Even tho it is a model, WotC still needs to clarify practical questions. Can player characters in a spelljammer ship dock at an island to embark into an Upper Plane such as Arborea, or into the Outlands to view and somehow get to Sigil? According to the 5e Players Handbook, the default model includes the Outer Planes inside the Astral Plane. They are even specifically inside the Astral Sea. The wildspace would be the part of the Astral Plane that overlays the Material Plane. By inference, the Astral Plane overlays everything that exists in the multiverse, from the outermost Astral edge to the innermost Material center. The Astral Plane is everywhere. My view is similar. The Material Plane includes distant stars that are impossibly far away, like reallife. In D&D, those distant stars have their own worlds, including planets like Athas, Eberron, Oerth, and Toril. Each planet is a separate campaign setting: Dark Sun, Eberron, Greyhawk, and Forgotten Realms respectively. It is unfeasible to try reach these stars by mundane means. The typical way to reach them is to enter the wildspace of ones own star system, then sail from there across the Astral Sea at the speed of thought to the wildspace of that distant star system. Those stars are all visible within the Astral Sea via their respective wildspaces. One dematerializes from one star system and rematerializes in an other star system, effectively teleporting. Creatures in a wildspace can exist both the Astral Plane and the Material Plane simultaneously. These creatures age because of the planar properties of the Material Plane. (There are no wildspaces in the vacuum of remote outer space, perhaps because there is little or nothing to overlap. Maybe it has something to do with gravity. In any case, altho the Astral Plane overlaps the empty space of the Material Plane, the Material Plane doesnt exert influence on the Astral Plane there, hence no wildspace.) You have the Elemental Chaos exist at the "quantum" level of atoms. That makes sense. Because it a "place" where Force, elemental energy (Fire, Cold, Lighting, Thunder), and unstable matter (Acid) are all in flux. When I look at the 5e map, I see the main features as: • Positive Energy and Negative Emptiness preexist the multiverse. • Where Positive and Negative interact the Astral Plane of thoughts results. • The Astral Plane causes and overlaps the Ethereal Plane. • The Ethereal Plane causes and overlaps the Material Plane. • The Astral Plane overlaps both the Ethereal and the Material. • The Elemental Chaos is where Ethereal force becomes matter. • This Elemental matter is the building blocks for the Material Plane. Note, one can reach the Four Elemental Planes from the Ethereal Plane, because its Ethereal force is part of the Elemental Chaos and each Element is actually made out of force. The Elements are states of matter: earthy solid, watery liquid, airy gas, and fiery plasma. All matter derives from the fundamental forces. In other words, the Four Elements are made out the Fifth Element, ether, which is Ethereal force. Ether as an element is also called Quintessence. The Elemental Chaos is like the Big Bang. It is a creation event. But it is ongoing, in a continual flux, where resulting matter can revert back into force and energy. That is true at the subatomic quantum level, is helpful. In the cosmology map, there is a ring from which spokes radiate to each Outer Plane. Perhaps this ring itself, or perhaps what is within it, is somehow the Outlands. I kinda want to put the Far Realm entering thru a lower level of Hades − with the Gray Waste including Aberration imagery. Meanwhile, "Hades" and everything belonging to any "underworld" of the dead become moreorless the same thing as Shadowfell in the context of 5e. Because there are omissions in the official descriptions of how these planes relate to each other, DMs are somewhat forced to fill in the gaps, and reconcile incongruencies. It is the great point that Forgotten Realms, namely the default setting for 5e core, has a tradition of changing cosmologies. Talk about "Realms-shaking events"! Probably true, mostly. But there are still practical questions that require clarification. Can players in the Planescape setting, be in an Outer Plane like Arborea and sail out from a dock there into the Astral Sea? In the Outlands, what is beyond the edge of the stable hub of the Spire? Is it the Astral Sea, the Elemental Chaos, more Outlands, or something else? How does one get to a relevant dominion like Hestavar from the Outlands, or from Elysium? Does one get there by a spelljammer ship? Can one get there by a spelljammer? I find it difficult to imagine a Planescape setting that avoids clarifying these likely adventure scenarios. [/QUOTE]
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