A question about Highlander

Kobold Stew · May 19, 2024

As to the OP: for me, the Prize is becoming truly part of the world, not existing separate, apart, and above it. As others have said, becoming part of the world brings with it knowledge and undertanding, the ability to procreate, and the ability to achieve a natural death. But all of this becomes an integration with life/the world, that the immortals lack.

Now I can't say that runs consistently through the decades, but i think that's the core, and we see it get expressed in various ways. One of the big changes in the Series was that the Gathering is no longer a single event (a moment at the end of an original movie), but a process (allowing for villains-of-the-week and an ongoing serial tv franchise). I think there is an analogy to be made with the New Testament: If the movie is the Synoptic Gospels (a sigle, focal event for cosmic history), the the series is the Gospel of John, where the Kingdom of heaven is now (as an ongoing process).

This message got diluted, of course. The production duo of Davis and Panzer (now both passed) was determined to finder ever cheaper ways to try to make a buck out of this, and consistency did not seem to be something either prized.

MGibster · May 19, 2024

Orius said:
You know people really hate the second film, but for me, it's just forgettable and an an inconsequential part of the franchise the show simply disregarded completely and rightfully so.

The reason people hate the second film so much isn't because it's a bad movie, though it most certainly is, but because it's plot is predicated on destroying everything they established in the first movie. In the first movie they establish a new and interesting mythology only to tell the audience in the second movie that none of it is true. These people aren't humans born with some innate immortality, they're aliens sent to Earth as punishment by their totalitarian government. Oh, by the way, through this stupid ritual Ramirez is alive again! I hated Spider-Man 3 for the same reason. We all saw the first Spider-Man movie and knew Sandman didn't kill Ben Parker.

Christopher Lambert and Sean Connery got along famously during the first movie and became fast friends. One of the reasons it's a bad movie is beause Lambert refused to do the project without Connery. In addition, the production was plagued by financial difficulties and apparently whole scenes were never shot which led to the disjointed film we all saw.

cimbrog · May 19, 2024

Helena Real said:
Highlander was (and still is) one of my life-long obsessions. Its world always felt so mysterious and cool.

I ran a one-shot using a fan made adaptation to WoD 1.0 rules back in the day and it was lots of fun. I remember someone creating a more in-depth version for WoD 2.0 rules that I read but never got to play.

Oh, hey, I still have those! Here, let me open a share.

We ran a Highlander game using those rules, too. But we did made the one-on-one immortal duels use a special set of rules that combined the Highlander CCG with the WoD rules.

(Basically, in the CCG you had attacks that mapped to a 9 square grid and defenses that did the same. Someone played an attack and if you had a defense that covered the same section of the grid you blocked. Your hand size was also your life total. In the rules we made, your hand size was determined by what you would normally roll for a sword attack.)

Ryujin · May 19, 2024

MGibster said:
In the first movie they establish a new and interesting mythology only to tell the audience in the second movie that none of it is true.

And where have we seen that before?

GreyLord · May 19, 2024

Orius said:
Highlander 3 is probably the second best movie, but that's a VERY low bar to clear. It has two main problems, a goody for the EVULZ villain and it exists completely outside the show's continuity.

Actually, I think there are at least 3 Highlander (if you count the Cartoons, it could be as high as 5) realities in Highlander.

The Original Movie is the base reality for 2 (3 if you count the cartoons, with the 4th as a possible) of those realities.

The Original Movie and the Third Movie are one reality, and the first reality that exists. The third movie sort of conflicts with the original, but is close enough to be an actual continuation.

The Second film is the second reality, and it meshes with the Original film as well...sort of...but has all sorts of nonsense that doesn't mesh with anything in OUR reality (Ramirez coming back...just because...really???).

The Third Reality is the TV show. It does NOT include the first film (because in that film the gathering already took place and Conner WON...obviously he didn't win in the context of the Show's reality...especially when the films are taken into account). The TV show include the Fourth and Fifth Highlander movies as well.

Thus, there are really 3 different Highlander continuities. One can be a fan of one, or more of them and still be a fan of Highlander. They may even just be a fan of the Original movie (and discard the third) and thus be a fan of the original Highlander and it's universe and dislike the other ones.

If we include the cartoons (which almost never get mentioned) there's the anime (which is a trip in and of itself, and could be considered it's own reality...very debatable on whether it is supported by the OG universe or not) which is it's own reality. There's also the cartoon series which tenuously could be seen as being supported by the original highlander film...maybe, but not really supporting any of the other films or their realities.

Ryujin · May 19, 2024

GreyLord said:
Actually, I think there are at least 3 Highlander (if you count the Cartoons, it could be as high as 5) realities in Highlander.

The Original Movie is the base reality for 2 (3 if you count the cartoons, with the 4th as a possible) of those realities.

The Original Movie and the Third Movie are one reality, and the first reality that exists. The third movie sort of conflicts with the original, but is close enough to be an actual continuation.

The Second film is the second reality, and it meshes with the Original film as well...sort of...but has all sorts of nonsense that doesn't mesh with anything in OUR reality (Ramirez coming back...just because...really???).

The Third Reality is the TV show. It does NOT include the first film (because in that film the gathering already took place and Conner WON...obviously he didn't win in the context of the Show's reality...especially when the films are taken into account). The TV show include the Fourth and Fifth Highlander movies as well.

Thus, there are really 3 different Highlander continuities. One can be a fan of one, or more of them and still be a fan of Highlander. They may even just be a fan of the Original movie (and discard the third) and thus be a fan of the original Highlander and it's universe and dislike the other ones.

If we include the cartoons (which almost never get mentioned) there's the anime (which is a trip in and of itself, and could be considered it's own reality...very debatable on whether it is supported by the OG universe or not) which is it's own reality. There's also the cartoon series which tenuously could be seen as being supported by the original highlander film...maybe, but not really supporting any of the other films or their realities.

I think the TV series could be considered prequel to the first movie, in that respect.

payn · May 19, 2024

MGibster said:
The reason people hate the second film so much isn't because it's a bad movie, though it most certainly is, but because it's plot is predicated on destroying everything they established in the first movie. In the first movie they establish a new and interesting mythology only to tell the audience in the second movie that none of it is true. These people aren't humans born with some innate immortality, they're aliens sent to Earth as punishment by their totalitarian government. Oh, by the way, through this stupid ritual Ramirez is alive again! I hated Spider-Man 3 for the same reason. We all saw the first Spider-Man movie and knew Sandman didn't kill Ben Parker.

Christopher Lambert and Sean Connery got along famously during the first movie and became fast friends. One of the reasons it's a bad movie is beause Lambert refused to do the project without Connery. In addition, the production was plagued by financial difficulties and apparently whole scenes were never shot which led to the disjointed film we all saw.

The return of Ramirez was the least of the annoying things of H2.

GreyLord · May 19, 2024

Ryujin said:
I think the TV series could be considered prequel to the first movie, in that respect.

If you don't include the 4th and 5th movies, it would fit. Once Conner is killed and Duncan lives on, it doesn't fit the original film anymore.

Of course, with the Original Film, if the series is the prequel to it, then you would have to accept that Duncan dies at some point before the final portion of the gathering and Conner's ultimate victory.

That's probably why they made the TV series (if you include the 4th film) a different reality...because fans of the TV show probably would didn't like the idea of the hero of the TV show getting killed off eventually (though to be honest, that would have probably been a great series finale, better than what we got...especially if it had Conner in it and an indication of what was too come eventually in the film w/o explicitly stating it).

Ryujin · May 19, 2024

GreyLord said:
If you don't include the 4th and 5th movies, it would fit. Once Conner is killed and Duncan lives on, it doesn't fit the original film anymore.

Of course, with the Original Film, if the series is the prequel to it, then you would have to accept that Duncan dies at some point before the final portion of the gathering and Conner's ultimate victory.

That's probably why they made the TV series (if you include the 4th film) a different reality...because fans of the TV show probably would didn't like the idea of the hero of the TV show getting killed off eventually (though to be honest, that would have probably been a great series finale, better than what we got...especially if it had Conner in it and an indication of what was too come eventually in the film w/o explicitly stating it).

I stopped watching the movies after the second, so I wouldn't know

Zardnaar · May 20, 2024

Ryujin said:
I stopped watching the movies after the second, so I wouldn't know

I made it to the third.

A question about Highlander

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock

MGibster

Legend

cimbrog

Explorer

Ryujin

Legend

GreyLord

Legend

Ryujin

Legend

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...

GreyLord

Legend

Ryujin

Legend

Zardnaar

Legend

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