Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I would need an example of what you're talking about here. One person's "effective -1" is another person's horizontal advancement.
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D&D (2024) 75 Feats -- not nearly enough
- Thread starter Kobold Stew
- Start date
Neonchameleon
Legend
This is very one-size-fits-all and because of that bad advice.
Great Weapon Master > +2 Strength if you are a barbarian and therefore have access to an easy source of Advantage.
Polearm Master (spear and shield style) > +2 strength if you have a damage buff like duelist and aren't doing much else with your bonus action or reaction. So it's awesome for paladins. And utterly useless for a Rune Knight.
In general a +2 to hit is worth about +10% to your chance of hitting (moving from an 11 needed to a 10 means you hit 10% more often) and about 10% to your damage (more at low levels, less at high and with magic weapons) for just over +20% DPR (the effects multiply).
There are four martial feats that are routinely significantly above this curve in common builds and against common threats; Great Weapon Master when combined with an easy accuracy buff, Polearm Master when combined with a damage buff, Sharpshooter again when combined with an accuracy buff, and Crossbow Expert for an extra attack when combined with a damage buff per attack (Sharpshooter with an accuracy buff being the obvious one).
Argyle King
Legend
I like horizontal advancement and prefer rpgs built around that. (Some of my favorites have no classes at all.)
That doesn't tend to be how contemporary D&D is built.
An example would be 3 feat choices -at the expense of ability advancement- meaning that spell save DCs, saves to resist enemy magic, and the ability to hit my opponent are all behind where they otherwise would be.
I 100% agree that does not matter for horizontal advancement. However, contemporary D&D trends more toward assuming a character advances vertically.
Argyle King
Legend
Anecdotally, it has been an issue at most Adventurer's League sessions I've attended and in many groups containing newer players who get disgruntled.
It's not nearly the disparity that I've seen in 3rd Edition, Pathfinder, or other games with a focus on vertical advancement, but it still exists.
The same issue is seen in magic items. A lot of items have really cool effects but get tossed aside because most players would rather have a higher +N item.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Contemporary D&D could stand some horizontal thinking. This is why I play Level Up. Horizontal advancement is built in.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Ah. I don't play Adventurer's League, and honestly think any balance concerns it has are far better addressed in AL materials themselves rather than the rulebooks, where they could mess up non-AL play.
It's only an issue in AL if the player doesn't read the ALPG (adventurer's league players guide)
LEVELING UP
You gain a level at the end of each play session that
completes an Adventurers League adventure or a part of an
official D&D adventure, at your discretion. If you’d like to
continue playing at your current level, you can decline to
gain a level. You keep any rewards earned.
You gain hit points listed as the fixed value for your class
(plus any modifiers) when you level up.
Whenever you could gain a level, you may rebuild any
aspect of your character. See “Rebuilding” below.
Once you achieve 5th level, you may choose a magic item
as presented in “Starting Play at 5th Level” above.
REBUILDING
Whenever you like, you can rebuild your character.
However, you only retain equipment and magic items earned
by adventuring and lose access to any items gained from
class features. If you rebuild back to the class, you regain
access to those items.
You gain a level at the end of each play session that
completes an Adventurers League adventure or a part of an
official D&D adventure, at your discretion. If you’d like to
continue playing at your current level, you can decline to
gain a level. You keep any rewards earned.
You gain hit points listed as the fixed value for your class
(plus any modifiers) when you level up.
Whenever you could gain a level, you may rebuild any
aspect of your character. See “Rebuilding” below.
Once you achieve 5th level, you may choose a magic item
as presented in “Starting Play at 5th Level” above.
REBUILDING
Whenever you like, you can rebuild your character.
However, you only retain equipment and magic items earned
by adventuring and lose access to any items gained from
class features. If you rebuild back to the class, you regain
access to those items.
STARTING PLAY AT 5TH LEVEL
You may choose to create a 5th level character instead of
starting at 1st level. As a 5th level character, you may choose
one of the following magic items to possess in addition to
your standard gear from your class and background.
• +1 weapon
• +1 shield
• +1 rod of the pact keeper
• +1 wand of the war mage
• +1 all-purpose tool (TCE)
• +1 amulet of the devout (TCE)
• +1 arcane grimoire (TCE)
• +1 bloodwell vial (TCE)
• +1 dragonhide belt (FTD)
• +1 moon sickle (TCE)
• +1 rhythm-maker’s drum (TCE)
• Bag of holding
WHAT RULEBOOKS SHOULD I USE?
You may choose to create a 5th level character instead of
starting at 1st level. As a 5th level character, you may choose
one of the following magic items to possess in addition to
your standard gear from your class and background.
• +1 weapon
• +1 shield
• +1 rod of the pact keeper
• +1 wand of the war mage
• +1 all-purpose tool (TCE)
• +1 amulet of the devout (TCE)
• +1 arcane grimoire (TCE)
• +1 bloodwell vial (TCE)
• +1 dragonhide belt (FTD)
• +1 moon sickle (TCE)
• +1 rhythm-maker’s drum (TCE)
• Bag of holding
WHAT RULEBOOKS SHOULD I USE?
- RTFM(it's four pages & one of them is for setting specific things really only relevant to certain HC adventures)
- "you know you can talk to your GM or even one of the other GM's running AL wherever you are playing if you have questions right? The more experienced players too."
- "You weren't sure but weren't happy.... did you ask your GM if you could change it?"
- and what IME the most likely/common one. For whatever reason there has been a shift from older editions. Players to go into some kind of death grip on a hate spiral where they aren't happy but have some kind of FOMO
- on "tell [my] story" that they feel they need to stick it out to the bitter end even if it means screwing the party to seek out an excuse to pin the responsibility for getting killed on someone else. I think with PCs so extremely insulated from death players feel like they are playing it wrong if they retire a PC
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teitan
Legend
Cool. That’s not even my argument. TTFN
teitan
Legend
Yeah but this isn’t Pathfinder. Even without feats 5e is extremely playable and functional.
Argyle King
Legend
I agree that the game is functional.
It remains functional without feats.
The questions are
1) whether or not it is worthwhile to forgo an ability score increase to choose a feat
2) and is that true for 75 of them?
Also, as the conversation has progressed:
1) Will the leveled feats mean that the ones worthwhile are locked behind being required to choose ones which aren't?
2) Is it good game structure to have choosing a feat compete with ability score advancement?
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