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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
They were never meant to model personalities.
They weren't meant to model personalities in OD&D. After that, TSR and WotC designers constantly attempted to make them personality tests (probably in response to players not understanding them), which is one of the reasons the three-by-three alignment grid is a meme now known to the general public.

In 6E, I would make alignments planar factions that aren't written down on anyone's character sheets by default.
 

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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Peter Brook states that ‘I can take any empty space and call it a bare stage. A man walks across this empty space whilst someone else is watching him, and this is all is for an act of theatre to be engaged.’

So yes, according to one of the most respected directors of the last 50 years, if something is observed it is theatre. Beckett did write a play with no actors, but he was being facetious.

I suspect further discussion of the nature of theatre is a bit out with the scope of the thread, but I will say Alan Cumming’s one-man Macbeth (c. 2012) was one of the best things I ever saw. Apologies for the tangent!
Never apologize for Alan Cumming or Macbeth content.
 

nevin

Hero
Unpopular astronomy opinions:
"That's not how things were when I was a kid" is a terrible thing to cling to and is the cause of many of the world's problems.
si
They weren't meant to model personalities in OD&D. After that, TSR and WotC designers constantly attempted to make them personality tests (probably in response to players not understanding them), which is one of the reasons the three-by-three alignment grid is a meme now known to the general public.

In 6E, I would make alignments planar factions that aren't written down on anyone's character sheets by default.
no i've read many many articles over the years even by Gygax and company that tried over and over to prevent the modeling of personality by alignment. Now they often confused people by then telling them what a person with a LG morality would find acceptable and what a person with a CE morality might do totally wiping out all the effort they put into explaining that personality and alignment are not related but do affect each other on the periphery. I've found the only way I've ever actually made that point is to play a LE or CG alignment and let the other players guess whether I'm good or evil. They always guess good when I play LE and they always guess Evil when I play CG. Because my CG character often refuses to accept the law and order schtick and will break people out of prison, openly flout laws, lie to get his way and none of that conradicts thier morality. My LE characters on the other hand tend to be superficially kind, thoughtful and very good at reading people and what motivates them because that makes them useful. So they stroke the ego's, make them feel good and use them to accomplish tasks that bring law and order to their benefit. I've only had one player in 30 years ever call me out playing a LE character. Everyone else thinks the Law and Order thing is a lock for good. Sadly not much different than political discourse.
 

Celebrim

Legend
So this is a Schroedinger situation? An actor who rents a tiny black box theater in North Hollywood (I used to live across from a whole row of these that existed for this exact purpose) to do a one-person show is not doing theater if no one is in the room, but the second someone steps back inside from going to the bathroom, it's theater again?

If someone does a one-player RPG with someone else in the living room getting updates on what's happening, is it an RPG at that point?

You are drastically misunderstanding my intentions in participating in this thread. This is about stirring the pot, and not having a really deep consideration of the questions at hand. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not playing a solo RPG is playing an RP or not. (Probably? But maybe not? Just not an interesting enough hot take to get me to thinking about whether there is a definitive answer, much less a surprising one.) I was just commenting on the comparison to theater, where am I'm feeling a bit on the side of, "It's not theater without an audience.", but also not willing to argue the point. Just watch Jim Carey in "Man on the Moon" and then maybe we can discuss whether a performance needs an audience to be a performance.
 



Books make bad movies....
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images (11).jpeg
 

Pedantic

Legend
The whole idea of content saturation for D&D is nonsense, and players were better off when more sourcebooks where regularly printed. Having a massive 3rd party industry of variable quality was a better state of affairs.

It's generally bad to design a game specifically for new players. If the game is interesting and good, they'll figure it out.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Alignments are actually a cool idea but people have bad experiences from bad mechanics or their misuse(or have heard horror stories) and don't want to bother trying again, honestly there just needs a clear definitive explaination for what defines each one and people need to stop applying their own definitions or assuming they already know what they mean by what they're called.

Yeah, but alignment arguments are so common and predictable that they aren't even fun anymore.
 


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