Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

freyar · Oct 4, 2018

Mako shark first, I guess. Based on its size and damage, I'd base the working draft on a Large SRD shark. I mean, it could almost be a Large shark with Imp Nat Attack as one of the feats. Alternately, we could leave the base damage the same, boost Str, maybe fiddle with the other abilities and NA and stuff. There's just not a lot in the original monster to inspire changing the SRD shark much.

Cleon · Oct 4, 2018

freyar said:
Mako shark first, I guess. Based on its size and damage, I'd base the working draft on a Large SRD shark. I mean, it could almost be a Large shark with Imp Nat Attack as one of the feats. Alternately, we could leave the base damage the same, boost Str, maybe fiddle with the other abilities and NA and stuff. There's just not a lot in the original monster to inspire changing the SRD shark much.

I'd make them Medium sized, since (a) the SRD Medium Shark's 3 HD is closed to the 4 HD of the Mako Shark, (b) I don't fancy having the hybrid form be Large size and (c) the BECMI Mako Shark is a Medium-sized monster:

Rules Cyclopedia (1993):

Shark

	Mako
Armor Class: Hit Dice: Move: Attacks: Damage: No. Appearing: Save As: Morale: Treasure Type: Intelligence: Alignment: XP Value:	4 4(M) 180′ (60′) 1 bite 2d6 0 (2d6) F2 7 Nil 2 Neutral 75

Monster Type: Normal Animal (Common).

Sharks are predators, feeding mostly on fish. They have little intelligence and are unpredictable. They are attracted to the scent of blood within 300′ and it will drive them into a feeding frenzy (they attack but make no morale checks). Sharks are found in salt water.

Mako Shark: These are 12′ long and blue-gray or tan in color. Mako sharks are very unpredictable, ignoring prey one moment and attacking another.

Terrain: Ocean.

Come to think of it, my "Wereshark Original Stats" post would be better with the Rules Cyclopedia mako shark entry included. I'll edit those in.

One problem is the official stats for sharks are noticeably underpowered. A Large shark should not be weaker than a Medium crocodile! Giving a 15-foot shark Strength 17 and a crocodile a size category smaller Strength 19 is just wrong.

Speaking of crocodiles, the SRD crocodile is 11-12 feet long, roughly the same as 12-foot length of the BECMI Mako Shark.

Incidentally, a real-world mako shark is typically a couple of hundred pounds in weight and 10 feet or less. That's Medium in 3E terms.

Ability score wise, I'd go for a Medium sized animal (Aquatic) with Str 15 or 17 and a 1d8 bite attack.

We want an Armour Class of 16, so the question is do we tweak the natural armour up a point or give it a Dexterity Bonus of +3?

I'd also entertain giving it a higher Swim speed than a standard Shark (say 70 ft.?) since Makos appear to be the fastest swimming species of shark. That could also be used as an argument for increasing its Dexterity to account for the higher AC.

freyar · Oct 17, 2018

I can go along with Medium, though 12ft long should really be Large unless it's quite skinny. I guess it is at only a couple of hundred pounds, though!

I guess sharks are a lot like dinosaurs, eh?

Let's keep the bite at 2d6+Str just to make it a tad better. Then Str 15 doesn't seem so bad. Dex 16 and Swim 70 ft sound ok. Keep the rest of the ability scores the same as the SRD shark?

Cleon · Oct 18, 2018

freyar said:
I can go along with Medium, though 12ft long should really be Large unless it's quite skinny. I guess it is at only a couple of hundred pounds, though!

I guess sharks are a lot like dinosaurs, eh?

I agree that a 12-foot mako ought to be Large. The thing is, most mako sharks are considerably shorter than that. The largest makos on record are about that length (according to Wikipedia the records are 3.40m to 3.70m and 4.45m).

After ~~wasting~~ investing some time on the internet (this researchgate page was particularly good) it appears male makos are mature at ~200 centimetres and females at ~250-300 centimetres in "fork length" (nose-to tail fork), with their weight in kilograms best-fitting to the formula W = 0.00004 × (L)².⁵⁹ [That should be "raised to the power 2.59" but this forum's formatting isn't supportive of equations].

If that formula is accurate, it comes out to 36.45kg for a 2m mako shark and 104.18kg for a 3m mako (90 lbs and 229 lbs).

That is REALLY skinny though. I'm leaning towards using Wikipedia's 60-135 kg (132–298 lb) as the basis for the average body weight of a shortfinned mako.

However, exceptionally large mako sharks start getting a lot stockier in build than smaller ones, which means the formula won't be reliable for the biggest specimens - a 12 foot mako seems to be about 800 pounds give-or-take with record catches of 570 kg (1,260 lb) and 600 kg (1,300 lb). There's claims for 770 kg (1,700 lb) and 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) makos 13+ feet long, but those are anecdotal or estimates.

Anyhow, to cut to the quick. What I suggest doing is quote the 12 foot length for an "advanced to Large" mako shark and use more realistic figures for a basic Medium sized specimen:

Like so:

Medium Animal (Aquatic)
Advancement: 5-6 HD (Medium); 7-9 HD (Large)

An average mako shark is from 7 to 10 feet long and weighs 125 and 300 pounds. Females are generally bigger than males. Exceptionally big makos can grow to Large size animals about 12 feet long. Large mako sharks are almost always female and are more stockily built than smaller specimens, typically weighing 600 to 800 pounds. Extraordinarily large makos can approach 15 feet in length and might weigh up to 1,300 pounds or possibly even more.

freyar said:
Let's keep the bite at 2d6+Str just to make it a tad better. Then Str 15 doesn't seem so bad. Dex 16 and Swim 70 ft sound ok. Keep the rest of the ability scores the same as the SRD shark?

I'm leaning more in favour of making the bite 1d8, which is still one step larger than the SRD Medium shark.

The Large mako proposed above will still have a 2d6 bite, although it will also have more HD than the BECMI original.

Cleon · Oct 18, 2018

I guess it comes down to whether we want to favour an "accurate" interpretation of the real world mako shark or the BECMI D&D version.

freyar · Nov 3, 2018

Let's go for a more real-world version. So Medium, with advancement and size information as you suggest. Then a 1d8+(1-1/2)Str bite and Str 15, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2, NA +3 seems pretty decent to me. Is there any reason to change Blindsense or Keen Scent?

Cleon · Nov 3, 2018

freyar said:
Let's go for a more real-world version. So Medium, with advancement and size information as you suggest. Then a 1d8+(1-1/2)Str bite and Str 15, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2, NA +3 seems pretty decent to me. Is there any reason to change Blindsense or Keen Scent?

Works for me.

Better start a Working Draft then!

EDIT: I assumed they would have the standard Blindsense and Keen Scent of the SRD Shark.

Cleon · Nov 3, 2018

Mako Shark Working Draft

Shark, Mako
Medium Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 4d8+4 (22 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: Swim 70 ft. (14 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d8+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Blindsense, keen scent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +2
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Listen +7, Spot +6, Swim +9
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Temperate aquatic
Organization: Solitary, school (2-5), or pack (6-11)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5-6 HD (Medium); 7-9 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

A lean shark somewhat longer than a human is tall.

Mako sharks are found in temperate and tropical seas. They are relatively common, and are a species known to occasionally attack humanoids. Makos are one of the fastest swimming sharks.

An average mako shark is from 7 to 10 feet long and weighs 125 and 300 pounds. Females are generally bigger than males. Exceptionally big makos can grow to Large size animals about 12 feet long. Large mako sharks are almost always female and are more stockily built than smaller specimens, typically weighing 600 to 800 pounds. Extraordinarily large makos can approach 15 feet in length and weigh up to 1,300 pounds or possibly even more.

COMBAT
Makos fight like other sharks; circling potential prey to observe them before darting in to bite.

Blindsense (Ex): A shark can locate creatures underwater within a 30-foot radius. This ability works only when the shark is underwater.

Keen Scent (Ex): A shark can notice creatures by scent in a 180-foot radius and detect blood in the water at ranges of up to a mile.

Skills: A shark has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

Cleon · Nov 3, 2018

By the way, you might have noticed that the Night Howlers writeup for Weresharks suggests Mako Sharks have a ram attack:

Cleon said:
Weresharks attack with one bite for 2d6 points of damage (cubs do only 1d6). They may ram an opponent first. If hit, the victim must save vs. paralysis or be stunned for 1d3 rounds.

This is a bit odd, since (a) the "monster" writeups for Weresharks in the Rules Cyclopedia / Companion Set / X7 War Rafts of Kron / Gygax Expert Set do not give them this special attack and (b) Mako Sharks don't have it in tose sources either! It's the Bull Shark that possesses a stunning ram:

Expert Set (1981): Bull shark. These are 8’ long and brown in color. Bull sharks will ram their prey first to stun it, and then attack the helpless prey the next round.

X7 War Rafts of Kron (1984):Bull shark: These eight-foot long brown sharks will ram their prey first (save vs. paralysis lasting 3 rounds) to stun it, and then attack the helpless prey the next round.

Cleon · Nov 3, 2018

Cleon said:
Shark, Mako
Skills: Listen +7, Spot +6, Swim +9
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus (bite)

A quick note on interprolation. I gave it Weapon Focus (bite) rather than the SRD Medium Shark's Weapon Finesse so it doesn't lose the benefit of its melee-boosting feat if it advances in size. The change doesn't affect its unadvanced bite attack after all.

Also, I put the odd skill point in Listen, since that follows the precedent of the SRD Large Shark's Listen +8, Spot +7. That Shark actually is short one SP so it should probably have Listen +8, Spot +8, but that's not our mistake! It's the SRD's Huge Shark that ought to have one of its skills a point different from the other, not the Large one.

The SRD's Huge Shark has one SP too many instead!