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Advice for new "story now" GMs

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
There's people who think Hitler had some "good things to say" in Mein Kampf ...

Mod Note:
Invoking Godwin's Law does not support your point. I am pretty sure Mr. Edwards has not been involved in any genocides, so the analogy is hyperbolic and will generate argument instead of engage reason.

Let us not engage in this manner, folks.
 

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innerdude

Legend
One thought on Story Now GM-ing ---

As a GM, plan and prepare to radically increase your overall transparency and level of forthcoming information relating to the game world.

Picture your classic, "stingy with info" dungeon crawler GM, and how forthcoming that individual typically is with info regarding the game world.

Multiply that level of forthcomingness by 4x. Then take that result, and multiply that level of forthcomingness again by another 2x or 3x.

Once you're there, you're in the neighborhood of appropriate GM transparency for Story Now play.

Now, this doesn't mean that you can't hold back a small handful of perhaps crucial "secrets," which should be tied to the "fronts" progressing along in the game world, some of them even outside the view of the players.

But those "fronts" should be generally tied to player/PC concerns (as often as possible), and should be part and parcel with your prep, and in most cases should be telegraphed over time as part of "soft" moves in cases where the GM is asked to make those moves.

And those secrets/fronts should also be open to revision based on what's happening in the gamestate now, and furthermore any secrets/fronts should not be used unilaterally to negate player success. If a PC makes an attempt, and after the roll of the dice a success is indicated, your "secrets" cannot negate player success. If anything, any "secret" that would negate player success should be telegraphed to them as part of the framing.

Clearly telegraph to the player if success is even possible given the current fictional framing, and clearly telegraph how they might succeed on their intent as well as the stakes of failure. The point is that because the current state of the fiction carries so much weight in giving players the ability to make action declarations (and potentially trigger moves), players need to have an abundantly clear picture of how their character would fully assess the situation.

Classic example --- picking an ancient lock on some chest or whatever.

"Well, this looks something like a multi-layered mechanic lock like something you'd see in the movies made by an Italian Renaissance philosopher. Your basic pick locks aren't going to get the job done here. Perhaps you could try smashing it, but there's no guarantee that you'll retrieve the contents unharmed. You recall that your father's library has clues related to this kind of device. If you can successfully transport it there for more study, there's a decent chance you can get answers to opening it. But that means hauling this heavy chest back through the ruined castle, and you and the comrade carrying it are hardly going to be able to fully defend yourselves while doing so. Smashing it certainly will at least let you see the innards, but there's no guarantee you'll get what you came for.

"What do you do?"

Notice at no point have I-as-the-imagined-GM negated the player's intent to Open the chest and discover its contents. There's nothing that says you can't imagine a situation that players can't necessarily overcome immediately. Though in some systems, there might be player-side moves/resources that may, in fact, mean that the chest is openable immediately --- "Hey Mr. GM, I have this nifty 'Dungeoneer Gadget' move that says it's possible that I have seen a similar style of lock and might have the tool I need. I want to search through my tool bag and see if it's there."

GM: "Sure! Just be aware that as you search for it and try to find the exact right device for this case, there's definitely sounds of footfalls approaching from the darkened corridor on your left. If you take too long to look, there's a decent chance you're going to get intruded upon" (i.e., framing consequence of failure, setting up the next soft move to follow if player-activated move doesn't succeed).

Get in the habit of clearly setting scenes, clearly setting stakes, clearly giving information that is actionable by the character within the fiction, and do it with an eye to addressing character concerns. The point of getting into this mindset is ultimately to allow players to do just that -- actually address their character concerns. And players can only do that when they're operating with a transparent picture of the situation and what's at stake.
 

innerdude

Legend
I'll let you know another secret. None of that is because of traditional play. It's entirely a DM thing. Back in the 1980s we played that way, but since about 1991 or 1992 the mindset of the traditional games I've played in and run has been very different. Nice things happen. Proactive players get to do lots of stuff. Nothing get shelved for later unless the player shelves it himself because it's a goal for another time.

I feel like a lot of people are remembering the old days(1e and before) and just assigning that sort of game play to the traditional style.

That's lovely for you, I'm sure.

In contrast to my experience as a player, where from 2002-2009 playing D&D 3.x, it was exactly as I described.

And then again, from 2016-2017 as a player in a friend of mine's Savage Worlds game, despite all his best intentions, it basically ended up as a "setting tourism" campaign for Shaintar.

How does my good friend in 2017, GM-ing a game I love (Savage Worlds), still end up running basically the same style of game that was happening back in 1981?
 

prabe

Tension, apprension, and dissension have begun
Supporter
How does my good friend in 2017, GM-ing a game I love (Savage Worlds), still end up running basically the same style of game that was happening back in 1981?
Probably about the same way I've ended up running 5e an awful lot like I remember the 1e games I played in nearly twenty years ago--and neither those old games nor those new games are anything like yours, from what I can tell.
 

innerdude

Legend
Probably about the same way I've ended up running 5e an awful lot like I remember the 1e games I played in nearly twenty years ago--and neither those old games nor those new games are anything like yours, from what I can tell.

Right? Which was the point of my response to Maxperson.

"Trad" GM-ing sensibilities didn't magically disappear in 1991 when V:tM was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2000 when D&D 3.0 was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2003 when GURPS 4e was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2007 when Savage Worlds Explorers' Edition was Published . . . and didn't disappear in 2009 when Pathfinder 1e was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2014 when D&D 5e was published . . . and won't disappear in 2024 when "D&D 5.33333333 Silver Anniversary Edition" is published either.

Like there was somehow this magical "cut off date" when all of the old "trad" GMs somehow woke up one day and realized that they didn't have to be the same GM they where in their Gygaxian dungeon crawling days, or even their "living world sim" days in 1987. Or that somehow that same ethos and tradition hasn't been handed down, master to padawan, the entire time before and since.
 

loverdrive

Prophet of the profane (She/Her)
That's lovely for you, I'm sure.

In contrast to my experience as a player, where from 2002-2009 playing D&D 3.x, it was exactly as I described.

And then again, from 2016-2017 as a player in a friend of mine's Savage Worlds game, despite all his best intentions, it basically ended up as a "setting tourism" campaign for Shaintar.

How does my good friend in 2017, GM-ing a game I love (Savage Worlds), still end up running basically the same style of game that was happening back in 1981?
I've experienced things you've described, and I wasn't even alive in the 80s. Or most of the 90s.
 

prabe

Tension, apprension, and dissension have begun
Supporter
Right? Which was the point of my response to Maxperson.

"Trad" GM-ing sensibilities didn't magically disappear in 1991 when V:tM was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2000 when D&D 3.0 was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2003 when GURPS 4e was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2007 when Savage Worlds Explorers' Edition was Published . . . and didn't disappear in 2009 when Pathfinder 1e was published . . . and didn't disappear in 2014 when D&D 5e was published . . . and won't disappear in 2024 when "D&D 5.33333333 Silver Anniversary Edition" is published either.

Like there was somehow this magical "cut off date" when all of the old "trad" GMs somehow woke up one day and realized that they didn't have to be the same GM they where in their Gygaxian dungeon crawling days, or even their "living world sim" days in 1987. Or that somehow that same ethos and tradition hasn't been handed down, master to padawan, the entire time before and since.
No, the old ways didn't suddenly disappear when new games, or new editions of old games, were published. Thing is, what people think of as the new ways didn't emerge like Athena from someone's brow--most of the bits and pieces have existed nearly as long as the hobby has, best I can tell. The games I'm running seem to match at least most of the description of "Neo-trad," and I'm running them very much like those 1e games of twenty-ish years ago. No Gygaxian dungeon-crawling for me, thanks, then or now or in-between.
 
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That's lovely for you, I'm sure.

In contrast to my experience as a player, where from 2002-2009 playing D&D 3.x, it was exactly as I described.

And then again, from 2016-2017 as a player in a friend of mine's Savage Worlds game, despite all his best intentions, it basically ended up as a "setting tourism" campaign for Shaintar.

How does my good friend in 2017, GM-ing a game I love (Savage Worlds), still end up running basically the same style of game that was happening back in 1981?
I think it's undeniable that trad play CAN address character concerns, but it is hard to reconcile the high myth story after sort of flow with that as a primary concern.

What I have experienced is uneven implementation where my PC's goals were at least incorporated into play up to a certain point, but then things would just go suddenly left turn off into whatever the GM felt like doing or die on the rocks of some impossible to anticipate unrevealed setting details or something. The process of play in well-designed narrativist games is just different and fundamentally better suited to this kind of play.
 

loverdrive

Prophet of the profane (She/Her)
I think it's undeniable that trad play CAN address character concerns, but it is hard to reconcile the high myth story after sort of flow with that as a primary concern.

What I have experienced is uneven implementation where my PC's goals were at least incorporated into play up to a certain point, but then things would just go suddenly left turn off into whatever the GM felt like doing or die on the rocks of some impossible to anticipate unrevealed setting details or something. The process of play in well-designed narrativist games is just different and fundamentally better suited to this kind of play.
I think players overcoming challenges (which is an important part of trad play, one way or another) is fundamentally incompatible with storytelling. The two just cannot coexist, as enabling one automatically undermines the other.

The main thing that allows Story Now to function properly and enable PC protagonism is that it kinda doesn't matter what the characters are doing, and that aspect is just plain missing from trad systems.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
I'll let you know another secret. None of that is because of traditional play. It's entirely a DM thing. Back in the 1980s we played that way, but since about 1991 or 1992 the mindset of the traditional games I've played in and run has been very different. Nice things happen. Proactive players get to do lots of stuff. Nothing get shelved for later unless the player shelves it himself because it's a goal for another time.

I feel like a lot of people are remembering the old days(1e and before) and just assigning that sort of game play to the traditional style.

I think that the mechanics of play absolutely impact how the game plays at the table. I absolutely agree that within the many editions/versions of D&D, and how much that core system can be flexed, you can get a range of outcomes in regard to player input and player direction.

Much like @prabe describes, I’ve been playing D&D in what’s likely classified as a neo-trad way. And I’ve only leaned into making the game more player facing in recent years.

But even my most player focused D&D game is less player focused than story now games. It's simply the way the two types of games work.
 

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