D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Then the Grandmaster of the Sword doesn't use a weak sword to block, but to direct the momentum of the meteors back up into the air where they explode without hurting anyone, and without damaging his sword. They don't just jam a twig into stone like a small child playing around, but they find the correct harmonic resonance and tap the precise locations needed to shatter the stone with the forces the twig can survive outputting.

What you are describing is not SKILL it is POWER. But that isn't what I've been talking about. I've been talking about SKILL

Yep. Of course there is likely room for all. At highest levels

You can have the skill mythic martial.

You can also have the power/hulk mythic martial.

You could also have the items mythic martial -- more action hero skill + magic items (as long as the magic items are guarunteed through the class).

That'd be great.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

If you can't find a game that satisfies everyone at the table, it isn't any of those game's fault, and it then is on you to seek a playgroup better suited to your preferences if you cannot work out these differences with the one you have.

Sure, from a practical, what should I be doing with my real life gaming time, this is true.

However, it's not helpful in a theoretical design discussion where the question is "How could D&D better support martials /mythic martials with its ruleset"?

"It's fine as it is because with my table conventions we circumvent these problems"
and
"Just play a different game that does it better"

Not too helpful.

 

[Minigiant]

Then the Grandmaster of the Sword doesn't use a weak sword to block, but to direct the momentum of the meteors back up into the air where they explode without hurting anyone, and without damaging his sword. They don't just jam a twig into stone like a small child playing around, but they find the correct harmonic resonance and tap the precise locations needed to shatter the stone with the forces the twig can survive outputting.

What you are describing is not SKILL it is POWER. But that isn't what I've been talking about. I've been talking about SKILL

Again this goes into the specifics of the manuver.

If the warrior is absorbing the energy into the sword, the sword has to be able to absorb the energy.
If the warrior is redirecting the energy into the sword, the sword does not have to be able to absorb the energy.

It a specific situation.

You cannot absorb a 9h level spell into a common sword mass produced by a local blacksmith in most fantasy settings. The sword will not have the HP to take the hit.

A fighter of high skill would attempt to absorb and would deflect. It would however be an option a magic sword would have that a common sword wouldn't in most settings.

In a setting where iron = antimagic, a fighter could absorb all magic with a 1gp metal spoon.

 

[Emberashh]

Sure, from a practical, what should I be doing with my real life gaming time, this is true.

However, it's not helpful in a theoretical design discussion where the question is "How could D&D better support martials /mythic martials with its ruleset"?

"It's fine as it is because with my table conventions we circumvent these problems"
and
"Just play a different game that does it better"

Not too helpful.

Well thats the thing, what they described goes beyond the question of what DND can do better. Better rules aren't going to solve the problems hes having, only make them less apparent and thats not much of an improvement.

 

[Minigiant]

No you're missing the point. The fighter is badass full stop.

You're inventing a weak link by saying "surely the sword must break"

I don't know why.

I'm describing a situation from a video.

A wizard casts the highest level spell at the fighter and the the fighter absorbs the spell into the magic sword,hold the energy in the magic sword, then shoots the spell back.

I'm stating that in most settings no matter how badass the fighter is, the fighter could not do the same with any old item because any old item cannot absorb a 9th level spell.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I'm describing a situation from a video.

A wizard casts the highest level spell at the fighter and the the fighter absorbs the spell into the magic sword,hold the energy in the magic sword, then shoots the spell back.

I'm stating that in most settings no matter how badass the fighter is, the fighter could not do the same with any old item because any old item cannot absorb a 9th level spell.

And it still is not clear to me why this has to be true. I've asked a few times.

As near as I can tell, the only response you've given is "Because of course it is"

 

[CreamCloud0]

If the warrior is absorbing the energy into the sword, the sword has to be able to absorb the energy.
If the warrior is redirecting the energy into the sword, the sword does not have to be able to absorb the energy.

who's saying the sword needs to be absorbing the energy at all to return it though? if you're skilled enough that you can defend yourself against spells by deflecting and disrupting the magic without absorbing it into your sword it's only a tiny step to being able to specifically target that deflection right back at the guy who sent it at you in the first place.

 

[Minigiant]

And it still is not clear to me why this has to be true. I've asked a few times.

As near as I can tell, the only response you've given is "Because of course it is"

DMG 246-247
Objects have HP.

5e magical items have resistance to most damage. Artifacts like the Sword of Light are indestructible except in special situations.

who's saying the sword needs to be absorbing the energy at all to return it though? if you're skilled enough that you can defend yourself against spells by deflecting and disrupting the magic without absorbing it into your sword it's only a tiny step to being able to specifically target that deflection right back at the guy who sent it at you in the first place.

It doesn't need to absorb the energy to reflect it. That is just how Gourry did it.

And Gourry despite being extremely skilled in weapons combat..... is a moron.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

I'm describing a situation from a video.

A wizard casts the highest level spell at the fighter and the the fighter absorbs the spell into the magic sword,hold the energy in the magic sword, then shoots the spell back.

I'm stating that in most settings no matter how badass the fighter is, the fighter could not do the same with any old item because any old item cannot absorb a 9th level spell.

And it still is not clear to me why this has to be true. I've asked a few times.

As near as I can tell, the only response you've given is "Because of course it is"

Assuming this is at high level, seems like there are at least 3 ways to model this in game:

1. this is action hero + magic item mythic martial. So they have a magic sword (it's part of the class)

2. mythic martial hulk/power . So it's not really the sword but the mythic power infuses the sword or the sword break and they just deflect anyway. The sword is a prop anyway

3. mythic martial skill person. They operate on a mythic level physics and can deflect the "quarks" of magic, even with a mundane sword

D&D magic is so ill defined all of these work for me.

 

[Minigiant]

Yep. Of course there is likely room for all. At highest levels

You can have the skill mythic martial.

You can also have the power/hulk mythic martial.

You could also have the items mythic martial -- more action hero skill + magic items (as long as the magic items are guarunteed through the class).

That'd be great.

I usually go will lanes of Martialdom

1. Action
2. Items
3. Power/Hulk
4. Power/Speed
5. Skill/Weapons
6. Skill/Nonweapon

D&D tends to only support 3 and 5